Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > CMP Bolt Action Rifles
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:52 AM
garandsrgr8 garandsrgr8 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 352
Default

I see that so far, this discussion focuses solely on the condition of the rifles bore. Whether or not a badly corroded bore may, at some point, cause overpressure in the rifle is, of course, important as overpressure may certainly be very dangerous. But there are more questions here. You say it was a VFW ceremonial rifle, but as a 1903, is it a low or high serial, something possibly more important than the bore. In addition, what condition is the bolt in? Also, the gunsmith advised you against firing this rifle, but I see nothing concerning headspace for instance. Was that properly checked and if so, was headspace okay? If not, definitely do not fire the rifle. In the end, I personally would not go against the advice of a gunsmith, who is certainly more knowledgeable than most of us regarding the condition of the rifle, and has examined it personally. Something that no one here on the forum has done or could do.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:57 AM
andyschrader andyschrader is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 43
Default

Thanks very much your insight Garandsrgr8.

It is a high-number 1903. Honestly the bolt looks great to me.

Yes, headspace was checked and confirmed to be okay.

I appreciate your cautions which you are correct, I had not mentioned as being checked but which appear to me to be okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garandsrgr8 View Post
I see that so far, this discussion focuses solely on the condition of the rifles bore. Whether or not a badly corroded bore may, at some point, cause overpressure in the rifle is, of course, important as overpressure may certainly be very dangerous. But there are more questions here. You say it was a VFW ceremonial rifle, but as a 1903, is it a low or high serial, something possibly more important than the bore. In addition, what condition is the bolt in? Also, the gunsmith advised you against firing this rifle, but I see nothing concerning headspace for instance. Was that properly checked and if so, was headspace okay? If not, definitely do not fire the rifle. In the end, I personally would not go against the advice of a gunsmith, who is certainly more knowledgeable than most of us regarding the condition of the rifle, and has examined it personally. Something that no one here on the forum has done or could do.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-02-2015, 09:17 AM
presidentg presidentg is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,566
Default

How dangerous is overpressure? Gee, how dangerous is a pipe bomb? Normal pressure for a typical 30'06 cartridge starts at 48,000 psi with a suggested maximum of 58,000 psi. Think about those numbers while you imagine a closed steel vessel about the size of your index finger. If for some reason you find yourself with an obstructed bore you'll be holding a detonated pipe bomb in your hands, up close to your head. Trust those who are suggesting that the rifle will dis-articulate. Dis-articulate with extreme prejudice.
The bore sounds pretty marginal. I doubt that I'd shoot the rifle. But that's just me.
Obviously you got skunked. If you can't get a refund from the seller you're stuck with the rifle. If you want a shooter, re-barrel it, you can still find good USGI barrels. If you can't bring yourself to do that, hang it on the wall. It is a piece of History and will always have value for that.
But please, don't talk yourself into thinking that the pressures you're dealing with are trivial.
__________________
give me liberty or give me death
GSM Master Instructor
NRA Life Member
Slaves don't dream of being free. They dream of being masters. ~ August Stetten

Last edited by presidentg; 05-02-2015 at 09:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-02-2015, 10:38 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,541
Send a message via AIM to rcolarco
Default

If a gunsmith advised me to not shoot the rifle I would........not shoot the rifle. No one on this forum, (including me) without examining the rifle, can give you reliable advice on its safety.

Save up your shekels. Consider a new Criterion barrel. Get it mounted and headspaced. Then shoot the rifle for the rest of your life, your kids' lives, your grandkids' lives...........
__________________
NRA-certified rifle (40 years), pistol, home firearms safety, and personal protection instructor
NRA-certified range safety officer
North Dakota and Maryland certified hunter safety instructor
ACEP-certified coach
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-02-2015, 10:42 AM
andyschrader andyschrader is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 43
Default

Thank you PresidentG for the vivid visual example. That definitely helps me understand what is going on. I guess a better way to have phrased my question would have been, "What are the chances of this actually happening assuming I keep an eye on what's happening in the bore?"

I wasn't trying to suggest that the pressures involved were trivial, more just that I wasn't going to use hot-loaded ammunition. From my readings online it appears that the overpressure question becomes much more relevant for guys who are reloading their own ammunition rather than those using factory or surplus ammo.

And I have also read conflicting reports about what actually generates dangerously high pressures. Some suggest that a dirty bore can produce the issue, while others say that it doesn't really matter unless the bore is actually plugged. It kind of seems like I can find supporting opinions no matter what I want to believe.

Again, thank you for your information and your genuine concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by presidentg View Post
How dangerous is overpressure? Gee, how dangerous is a pipe bomb? Normal pressure for a typical 30'06 cartridge starts at 48,000 psi with a suggested maximum of 58,000 psi. Think about those numbers while you imagine a closed steel vessel about the size of your index finger. If for some reason you find yourself with an obstructed bore you'll be holding a detonated pipe bomb in your hands, up close to your head. Trust those who are suggesting that the rifle will dis-articulate. Dis-articulate with extreme prejudice.
The bore sounds pretty marginal. I doubt that I'd shoot the rifle. But that's just me.
Obviously you got skunked. If you can't get a refund from the seller you're stuck with the rifle. If you want a shooter, re-barrel it, you can still find good USGI barrels. If you can't bring yourself to do that, hang it on the wall. It is a piece of History and will always have value for that.
But please, don't talk yourself into thinking that the pressures you're dealing with are trivial.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-02-2015, 10:49 AM
andyschrader andyschrader is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 43
Default

Thanks very much rcolarco, you make a very good point.

What you say about shekels is true, maybe I just need to keep saving. I know I am trying to do something which isn't the greatest idea, mostly because I wanted to "get in the game" with a 1903 while still trying to save a few bucks. I figured I would get good experience by cleaning up a nasty bore, which I certainly have. I also assumed I would succeed in making it safe to shoot, which, maybe I haven't.

Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
If a gunsmith advised me to not shoot the rifle I would........not shoot the rifle. No one on this forum, (including me) without examining the rifle, can give you reliable advice on its safety.

Save up your shekels. Consider a new Criterion barrel. Get it mounted and headspaced. Then shoot the rifle for the rest of your life, your kids' lives, your grandkids' lives...........
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-02-2015, 11:30 AM
presidentg presidentg is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,566
Default

You are reasonably close to Anniston so smart money would be to ship/drive your rifle to the CMP and let the professionals give your rifle a look. The CMP has seen more Springfield rifles in more varied conditions than anyplace I can think of.
If the armorers say it's good or bad you could be confident in the evaluation. Give the Custom Shop a call. It would be worth the drive just to see the new range!!
__________________
give me liberty or give me death
GSM Master Instructor
NRA Life Member
Slaves don't dream of being free. They dream of being masters. ~ August Stetten
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-02-2015, 11:37 AM
garandsrgr8 garandsrgr8 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 352
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyschrader View Post
Thanks very much rcolarco, you make a very good point.

What you say about shekels is true, maybe I just need to keep saving. I know I am trying to do something which isn't the greatest idea, mostly because I wanted to "get in the game" with a 1903 while still trying to save a few bucks. I figured I would get good experience by cleaning up a nasty bore, which I certainly have. I also assumed I would succeed in making it safe to shoot, which, maybe I haven't.

Thanks again.
Andy - all of us like saving a few bucks where possible. But a few bucks measured against the very real risk of losing a hand, an eye, or something even more serious just does not add up to much. It seems that you have had the advice of a professional gunsmith, but keep looking for internet and or forum support to ignore that advice. Like rcolarco said, if a professional gunsmith who has actually examined the rifle advised me not to shoot it-----I would listen to him.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-02-2015, 12:20 PM
chuckindenver chuckindenver is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,705
Default

time for a new barrel.
shooting these rifles that were used for Salute use, can be dangerous..
keep in mind, you have a small bomb less then 10 inches from your face...
a new barrel, installed, will give you years of safe use..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-02-2015, 06:50 PM
andyschrader andyschrader is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 43
Default

Thanks very much PresidentG, I honestly had no idea about the Custom Shop. After your post I spent a few minutes reading up on the services they offered. Very cool how they post costs for the standard services and even have the parts listed available. Looks like I can get a new barrel for $190.00 and get it installed by them for another $150.00.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/custom-gunsmithing/

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/custom-g...3-springfield/


Before your post I was thinking of just shipping it to Chuck in Denver. That helps a lot, and I really appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by presidentg View Post
You are reasonably close to Anniston so smart money would be to ship/drive your rifle to the CMP and let the professionals give your rifle a look. The CMP has seen more Springfield rifles in more varied conditions than anyplace I can think of.
If the armorers say it's good or bad you could be confident in the evaluation. Give the Custom Shop a call. It would be worth the drive just to see the new range!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1903, bore cleaning, overpressure

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 AM.