Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP General > Ask Each Other > Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-26-2022, 01:52 PM
smallguy7 smallguy7 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 499
Default What manuals are y'all using?

All, what are your go to manuals? I personally been relying on an old Hornady 8th edition. Its been a decent manual for me starting out, but I do understand Hornady tends to be on the conservative side with their data. If I were to get another manual, what would be a good one? Since majority of my reloads are military cartridges like 7.62x54r and 50 BMG to name a few, is there a manual that tends to lean more in that direction? Or all of them about the same?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-26-2022, 02:22 PM
nf1e nf1e is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,877
Default

Sierra , Berger, Hornady and Lyman.
__________________
Semper Fi
Art
Sgt USMC 66 -72
RVN 67-68
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-26-2022, 02:50 PM
martindc1 martindc1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Salem, MO
Posts: 430
Default

Hornady, Lyman, and the Western Powders loading guide (available for free download from Accurate/Ramshot). The next one I get will be the Sierra manual; although my Lyman manual has a lot of data with Sierra bullets. My basic approach is to have the manuals for the brand of bullets I use, plus reference the powder manufacturer’s data.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-26-2022, 05:55 PM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,191
Default

I usually go to the powder company manuals first and the bullet company and other manuals second. My reasoning is as follows:

There are always lot-to-lot variations in powder burn rates and energy densities, and only the powder companies know what spec they order the powder to and have the opportunity to maintain data powder representing their spec range and can use it to do load testing. Sierra told me they frequently are asked why they didn't test this or that powder or dropped one for a particular cartridge and bullet combination in their most recent manual, and they said they leave some out because there just wasn't any available on store shelves at the time their test schedule came up for that cartridge and bullet combination. In other words, the bullet companies just buy powder off the shelf like the rest of us do without knowing if it is average or at the fast or slow ends of the powder company's burn rate control range. This is one of the reasons you have differences in load data from different sources. It is also a reason bullet company load data may change for a powder over time.

The second reason is that powder companies will often (not always) publish pressures for their maximum loads. The reason you see different maximum load pressures for different powders in those data sets is they try to compensate for the fact some powders exhibit greater pressure variation from shot to shot than others, and they are trying to prevent a statistically significant number of rounds exceeding the SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) limit. That's not how SAAMI means the MAP is to be used by commercial loaders, but SAAMI also assumes commercial loaders will use a pressure gun to determine loads and not rely on recipes developed using a powder lot that doesn't exactly match the one they have. A plus for the handloader is that varying published maximum pressure tells you which powders produced the most consistent pressure: the powders for which the listed maximum load pressures are highest did.

The one downside to powder company data is it often doesn't use the exact same bullet you want to use. This is where the bullet company manuals become valuable, as they can give you the best accuracy loads from their testing, as well as data specific to their bullets to compare to the powder company data. By looking at those loads and velocities and comparing them to what the powder company got, you get some idea of range and performance and can better decide how well it may or may not be suited to your gun and purposes.
__________________
--------------
Nick

Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member
ORPA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-26-2022, 06:00 PM
Cololab Cololab is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 54
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
I usually go to the powder company manuals first and the bullet company and other manuals second. My reasoning is as follows:

There are always lot-to-lot variations in powder burn rates and energy densities, and only the powder companies know what spec they order the powder to and have the opportunity to maintain data powder representing their spec range and can use it to do load testing. Sierra told me they frequently are asked why they didn't test this or that powder or dropped one for a particular cartridge and bullet combination in their most recent manual, and they said they leave some out because there just wasn't any available on store shelves at the time their test schedule came up for that cartridge and bullet combination. In other words, the bullet companies just buy powder off the shelf like the rest of us do without knowing if it is average or at the fast or slow ends of the powder company's burn rate control range. This is one of the reasons you have differences in load data from different sources. It is also a reason bullet company load data may change for a powder over time.

The second reason is that powder companies will often (not always) publish pressures for their maximum loads. The reason you see different maximum load pressures for different powders in those data sets is they try to compensate for the fact some powders exhibit greater pressure variation from shot to shot than others, and they are trying to prevent a statistically significant number of rounds exceeding the SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) limit. That's not how SAAMI means the MAP is to be used by commercial loaders, but SAAMI also assumes commercial loaders will use a pressure gun to determine loads and not rely on recipes developed using a powder lot that doesn't exactly match the one they have. A plus for the handloader is that varying published maximum pressure tells you which powders produced the most consistent pressure: the powders for which the listed maximum load pressures are highest did.

The one downside to powder company data is it often doesn't use the exact same bullet you want to use. This is where the bullet company manuals become valuable, as they can give you the best accuracy loads from their testing, as well as data specific to their bullets to compare to the powder company data. By looking at those loads and velocities and comparing them to what the powder company got, you get some idea of range and performance and can better decide how well it may or may not be suited to your gun and purposes.
Ditto this
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-26-2022, 06:22 PM
smallguy7 smallguy7 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 499
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
I usually go to the powder company manuals first and the bullet company and other manuals second. My reasoning is as follows:

There are always lot-to-lot variations in powder burn rates and energy densities, and only the powder companies know what spec they order the powder to and have the opportunity to maintain data powder representing their spec range and can use it to do load testing. Sierra told me they frequently are asked why they didn't test this or that powder or dropped one for a particular cartridge and bullet combination in their most recent manual, and they said they leave some out because there just wasn't any available on store shelves at the time their test schedule came up for that cartridge and bullet combination. In other words, the bullet companies just buy powder off the shelf like the rest of us do without knowing if it is average or at the fast or slow ends of the powder company's burn rate control range. This is one of the reasons you have differences in load data from different sources. It is also a reason bullet company load data may change for a powder over time.

The second reason is that powder companies will often (not always) publish pressures for their maximum loads. The reason you see different maximum load pressures for different powders in those data sets is they try to compensate for the fact some powders exhibit greater pressure variation from shot to shot than others, and they are trying to prevent a statistically significant number of rounds exceeding the SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) limit. That's not how SAAMI means the MAP is to be used by commercial loaders, but SAAMI also assumes commercial loaders will use a pressure gun to determine loads and not rely on recipes developed using a powder lot that doesn't exactly match the one they have. A plus for the handloader is that varying published maximum pressure tells you which powders produced the most consistent pressure: the powders for which the listed maximum load pressures are highest did.

The one downside to powder company data is it often doesn't use the exact same bullet you want to use. This is where the bullet company manuals become valuable, as they can give you the best accuracy loads from their testing, as well as data specific to their bullets to compare to the powder company data. By looking at those loads and velocities and comparing them to what the powder company got, you get some idea of range and performance and can better decide how well it may or may not be suited to your gun and purposes.
Appreciate the insight. By chance, is this why Hornady is conservative in their reloading data?

Last edited by smallguy7; 11-26-2022 at 06:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-26-2022, 06:35 PM
ceresco ceresco is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,504
Default

A recent Lyman manual would be my first choice. Most of the other manuals are good, but the Lyman manuals cover everything and the data is tested and spot on. Good Shooting......
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2022, 08:33 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,590
Default

I have several Lyman manuals:
- Reloading Manual
- Black Powder Manual
- Lead Bullet Casting Handbook
- Shotshell Reloading Manual

The current Lee Reloading manual is very good

Powder companies publish small handbooks on their powders, which are usually available free of charge.
- Hogdon manual covers Hogdon, IMR, and Winchester brand powders
- Alliant manual covers their products

Bullet Companies also have recipe handbooks out: Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Norma, etc.

For Shotshell reloading, check out Ballistic Products. They publish many manuals and very good books.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2022, 11:54 AM
Tothemax Tothemax is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 1,797
Default

Online. Mostly Hodgons site.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2022, 12:59 PM
smallguy7 smallguy7 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 499
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tothemax View Post
Online. Mostly Hodgons site.
I've used Hodgdons as a starting point on some cartridges my Hornady manual doesn't list or is vague in terms of powders I can use. I've also used Nosler's website too.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 PM.