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  #1  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:11 PM
nyukx3fan nyukx3fan is offline
 
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Location: Martinsburg WV
Posts: 322
Default die question

I got a question on dies........

rather than ask a question, can I explain how I think it is and you guys correct me


1. I have a 30-06 round from CMP
2. I fire it in my M1
3. After trimming and cleaning I now have three choices
a. Do a neck resize I can buy a Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die
b. Do a full length resize I could buy a Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die
c. Do a small small base resize I could buy a RCBS Small Base Sizer Die

I am under the assumption that:
A case only needs a neck resize if it is fired in the same gun

A full length resize is need if the case is fired in a different gun

A small base resize futher reduces the base of the case there by guarantees the round will chamber........in any gun and puts the case as close to factory orginal..........

Would I be correct????
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:26 PM
GarandGrabber GarandGrabber is offline
 
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Location: Way the Heck up North-MI
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NO need for SB dies..Full length size with a normal sizing die. All semi-autos should be FL sized..Neck sizing with brass used in Bolt guns and only the same bolt gun. SB dies will tend to work your brass pretty hard and M-1 chambers tend to be a little forgiving
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Last edited by GarandGrabber; 04-27-2013 at 08:30 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:51 PM
CarlC CarlC is offline
 
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Location: Colorado, USA
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If you need a small base dye, you will know it. I did back in the day but no longer have any really sloppy chambered Garands or M1As. I should add that all my HXP goes through a Garand and small base dye first use.

Last edited by CarlC; 04-27-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2013, 09:55 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,283
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There are standard non-collet neck sizing dies--they work very well. I have mixed feelings about the Lee collet neck sizing dies; they can be jammed and even damage lee turrets if improperly adjusted, have some moving parts that don't always move properly and I suspect the finished cases are less uniform than those coming from standard NS or standard FL dies, set for partial sizing. I have gravitated away from the Lee collet dies to RCBS or Redding NS dies. If you depend on neck (or partial) sizing, you will occasionally need to run the cases through a Standard or SB FL sizing die as the cases gradually grow and will become difficult to chamber/extract. A lot will depend on how hot your loads are...high pressure causes a lot of problems. My advice to those shooting M1s, who have to ask: Buy a standard set of dies, full length size with the die set hard on the shell holder and don't use shortcuts in any auto loading rifle. BTW--you trim cases after sizing, not before.... Good Shooting......
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2013, 10:09 PM
lapriester lapriester is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cobb, N California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyukx3fan View Post
I got a question on dies........

rather than ask a question, can I explain how I think it is and you guys correct me


1. I have a 30-06 round from CMP
2. I fire it in my M1
3. After trimming and cleaning I now have three choices
a. Do a neck resize I can buy a Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die
b. Do a full length resize I could buy a Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die
c. Do a small small base resize I could buy a RCBS Small Base Sizer Die

I am under the assumption that:
A case only needs a neck resize if it is fired in the same gun

A full length resize is need if the case is fired in a different gun

A small base resize futher reduces the base of the case there by guarantees the round will chamber........in any gun and puts the case as close to factory orginal..........

Would I be correct????
#3 Clean and size first. Only after doing that will you know if it needs trimming. Cases grow a bit on each resize so trimming before you size is putting the cart before the horse.
a) Always FL size brass to be used in any semi-auto rifle. Neck sizing is for bolt guns only and then only for a few time before you will eventually have to FL size.
b) I'm not familiar with Redding bushing sizers but all you need is any standard FL sizing die - not small base unless sizing the brass to be used in a commercial, pump or semi-auto rifle.
c) As stated above, you won't need a SB sizing die. Any FL die is fine for Garand reloading.

"I am under the assumption that:
A case only needs a neck resize if it is fired in the same gun."

For bolt guns yes. Not for a Garand. Always FL size and use standard dies.

"A full length resize is need if the case is fired in a different gun"

For bolt guns yes. For a Garand always FL size with a standard FL sizing die.

"A small base resize futher reduces the base of the case there by guarantees the round will chamber........in any gun and puts the case as close to factory orginal.........."

It sizes the entire case to minimum specs. Doesn't guarantee anything except that it will chamber in minimum sized chambers in commercial bolt, lever and pump guns. For a Garand all it really does is overwork the brass needlessly (not excessively though) since a Garand has a slightly generous chamber to enable malfunction free cycling. When you squeeze it tighter it has to expand further each time than it would if you used a std FL die.

L
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  #6  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:13 AM
nyukx3fan nyukx3fan is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Martinsburg WV
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The LGS was getting rid of their reloading supplies for good and I bought some 30-06 RCBS small base dies at a good price. I should then read up on how to properly adjust the die so it doesn't work the brass so hard?Almost all of my reloading experience is in pistol stuff.
thanks for the replies
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:42 AM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 3,042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyukx3fan View Post
The LGS was getting rid of their reloading supplies for good and I bought some 30-06 RCBS small base dies at a good price.

I should then read up on how to properly adjust the die so it doesn't work the brass so hard?Almost all of my reloading experience is in pistol stuff.
thanks for the replies
you don't seem to understand HOW (rifle) sizing dies work. I recommend you read the first couple chapters of your reloading book.

1. Small base dies are (by definition) MINIMUM spec dies. They will in fact "work" your brass excessively (without ANY reason) and will result in reduced case life.

2. The ONLY adjustment that YOU can be involved with that can reduce how much your small base dies "work" your brass (technically, it's called "embrittlement") is the HEADSPACE adjustment.

3. While you do need to "full length" size your brass, you do not need to set your HEADSPACE back more than .002 or .003 unless you are sizing for several rifles.

4. What you seem to (also) have missed is that several previous posters (above) have advised you to go buy some STANDARD dies (i.e. a standard sizing die). For pete's sake, you can buy a Lee 2 Die set for TWENTY dollars (you already have a shell-holder). Spend the 20 and you will come out ahead in the LONG run.
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2013, 08:21 AM
Mad_Gorilla Mad_Gorilla is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NW Illinois
Posts: 1,520
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As others have already said, get a set of standard dies. Another wise purchase would be a Hornady Headspace Gauge set (about $30). That will allow you to properly set up your standard sizing die so that you bump the shoulder back .003" as Hugh was talking about.

That is how you get the most case life out of your .30-06 brass.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:04 AM
aka108 aka108 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Florida
Posts: 3,374
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Get a Lee 2 full length sizing die set to load for your 30-06. I set mine so that the base of the die is about the thickness of a dime from touching the shell holder in the ram. This keeps the brass worked at a minimum but sets the sholder back enough so there is no problem feeding. I trim the brass using the Lee case length trimmer after it has been sized. I'm getting in excess of 20 loadings on a case. The main difference between Lee dies and the others is the price you pay.
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2013, 11:06 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,283
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Well--I have a RCBS Small Base die that does not size the case diameters any smaller than some standard FL dies--so it depends...... Also, you could use SB 30-06 dies for everything and except for the slight additional effort in sizing never suffer any downside. The case necks will fail first with 30-06 brass. More problems will result from die settings and particularly high pressure loads. The .308 win is a different animal for several reasons. Good Shooting....
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