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  #1  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:52 AM
mjolnir mjolnir is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 221
Default 1903 a4

New A4 listed in GB from NC. What do you think?

(Jim - In your database?)



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=337757060
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  #2  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:21 AM
jgaynor jgaynor is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NNJ
Posts: 987
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No It's a new one for me. More and better pics would be needed for a complete analysis. The only thing that immediately pops out is the scope. W&E knobs are mismatched. Probably a creature of one of the repair services.

A4's with June barrels are relatively scarce. Also for some reason this rifle was right in the middle of about a 1000 rifle gap in the data. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Regards,
Jim
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2013, 10:38 AM
S99VG S99VG is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 841
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That's the problem. From the pics, the receiver is certainly consistent with an A4 and the bolt looks good. But who's to say what the rest of the rifle is. Was it made that way or is it a "kitchen table" rebuild? The creditability of all 03s, A3s and A4s have been affected to some degree by all the "aftermarket" rebuilding that's been going on over the last few years. I'd say the purchaser needs absolute proof of originality or walk away.

PS - I'd also say the seller is dreaming at 6500-bucks.

Last edited by S99VG; 04-28-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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  #4  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:58 PM
Dingsbums Dingsbums is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Iowa
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I agree with S99VG that the seller is dreaming...it's nice, but not $5500-$6500 nice. And I am unashamedly pumping the Creedmore A4 'repros' available through CMP -$1100! And you get a brand-new barrel, brand-new stock, and a replica Weaver 330C/M73G2 which is match legal.... ....you can't beat that with a stick...unless just have to have an 'original'... I forgot to mention - you can get a 1941A1 repro for $2200. The only catch with the Creedmores is that you have to have them shipped to an FFL, which some folks have to do regardless. I think the M1941A1 is the same as a M1903A1....smack me if I'm wrong... Upon further research, I'm wrong....I'll smack myself. I'll have to do some more checking on the "M1941A1"... After more checking, turns out I was right, sort of....the "M1941A1" is supposed to be the same as the Marines M1903A1... I'm not going to smack myself too hard. I still think it's a good deal, if it's a good reproduction.

Last edited by Dingsbums; 04-28-2013 at 10:46 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:00 AM
Fogtripper Fogtripper is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
New A4 listed in GB from NC. What do you think?

(Jim - In your database?)



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=337757060
Malware detected by chrome. (the photos posted by the guy are flagged from a site that distributed malware)
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:10 AM
stu929 stu929 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western Md
Posts: 1,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingsbums View Post
And I am unashamedly pumping the Creedmore A4 'repros' available through CMP -$1100! And you get a brand-new barrel, brand-new stock, and a replica Weaver 330C/M73G2 which is match legal.... ....you can't beat that with a stick...unless just have to have an 'original'...
You can order these through the CMP?

Did I miss something?
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:58 AM
jgaynor jgaynor is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NNJ
Posts: 987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingsbums View Post

[snip]

I think the M1941A1 is the same as a M1903A1....smack me if I'm wrong... Upon further research, I'm wrong....I'll smack myself. I'll have to do some more checking on the "M1941A1"... After more checking, turns out I was right, sort of....the "M1941A1" is supposed to be the same as the Marines M1903A1... I'm not going to smack myself too hard. I still think it's a good deal, if it's a good reproduction.
The nomenclature "M1941A1" was made up by somebody for the sake of the vintage sniper matches.

There is an extensive file of USMC documentation and correspondence spanning the period from around 1940 to 1953 where the rifle is routinely referred to as: "Rifle, (Sniper's) Cal. 30, M1903A1, w/ Telescope, Sighting, Unertl 8x". The file of documents can be purchased from Springfield Research Service. Most of them have been reproduced in Peter Senich's "The USMC Scout Sniper in WW2 and Korea".

Prior to the M1903A1 with Unertl being adopted, the Winchester Model 70, also mounting the Unertl 8x, was being considered by the USMC for sniper service. Early in the war the USMC even purchased 373 Model 70's but its unclear what role, if any, they played in WW2. Ultimately marine corps brass bailed at introducing a new rifle and opted to use M1903A1'a which were either on hand or could be assembled from USMC match and special target rifles.

According to Clark Campbell "The '03 Springfield Era" (2003) it was the the Winchester Model 70 with Unertl 8x which was identified as: "MC M1941".

Guidance from USMC HQ specified the sniper rifles use the "C" stocks "if available". There is at least one combat photograph showing two snipers in the pacific and one of them appears to be using a Unertl equipped rifle with a straight stocked GG stock. Built that way or a filed replacement? Who knows?

Regards,

Jim

Last edited by jgaynor; 04-29-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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  #8  
Old 04-29-2013, 04:56 PM
mjolnir mjolnir is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogtripper View Post
Malware detected by chrome. (the photos posted by the guy are flagged from a site that distributed malware)
That's not good! I've been to this shop and it's in a little town in the middle of NC. I would suspect his web page is hosted on a site of a friend or he pays a fee. Probably doesn't even know.

Thanks for the heads up!
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2013, 05:47 PM
ggordon ggordon is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 177
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Minor point-- the scope eyepiece looks wrong. Look that the side of the eyepiece, closest to where you put your eye. I've had 3 M73B1 scopes and all had ridges that go right to the end of the eyepiece-- no band without the grooves.
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:41 PM
jgaynor jgaynor is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NNJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggordon View Post
Minor point-- the scope eyepiece looks wrong. Look that the side of the eyepiece, closest to where you put your eye. I've had 3 M73B1 scopes and all had ridges that go right to the end of the eyepiece-- no band without the grooves.
Good catch@!..Besides the knobs the whole scope may have been put together from a mix of parts - definitely impacts the value.

Regards,

Jim
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