Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > Ammunition
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:48 PM
Nodakdad Nodakdad is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 1,401
Default Tumbling live rounds.

I have heard others do their own experiments with tumbling ammo and the powder breaking down. I have always wanted to give it a go so it's a rainy night and I have the time to. I will take 3 calibers 30-06, 45LC and 45ACP and load them up as I would normally and put them in my Thumbler tumbler model UV-10. I am loading 4 of each and will start it tomorrow and then after 1 week pull the round apart and compare the powder to new. Then run the remaining rounds for another week and then pull down one more of each, and so on until a month has gone by. So at the end of the time the last ones will rattle around for a month. I do not have a crono but I can see if the powder turns to dust or changes in shape. The loads will be
30-06
47 grains IMR4895
CCI #200
new Remington case
150 grain Corelokt bullet


45LC
9 grains of Unique
CCI # 300
once fired Hornady case
255 LSWC


45ACP
8.5 grains AA#5
CCI #300
once fired Federal case
200gr plated lead RN

I'll load them up and put them in the tumbler tomorrow and let them go. I'll post up pictures at the end of each week.
__________________
25+ transactions, 100% Positive Itrader rating,
Until the dark day it was turned off

Josh

Last edited by Nodakdad; 10-29-2013 at 05:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-05-2013, 05:49 AM
Hacker Hacker is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 917
Default

Interested to see the results. None of the other tests like this I've seen resulted in breakdown of the powder.
__________________
OIF veteran 2003
OEF veteran 2007/2011
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:23 AM
ma96782 ma96782 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 200
Default

Whatever dude.

Quote:
You get to decide for yourself........"What's your margin for safety?"

Quote:
Your ammunition needs to be in good condition (clean, dry, etc….). It doesn’t need to glint in the sun. Wiping off corrosion, excess lube, crud, etc.... with OO steel wool or a rag will usually be enough. After firing, the brass can be tumbled or vibrated to your heart‘s content.
________________________________
Quote:
Printed Tumbler Warnings

How many warnings are CYA insisted on by lawyers and how many warning are in response to actual "personal injury?"

Note............

RCBS says for their vibratory cleaner: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition under any conditions."

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf

RCBS says for their tumbler: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition. To do so could result in cartridge detonation causing serious personal injury."

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf

______________________________________

And read, “Q. Is tumbling loaded ammunition dangerous?”……….

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellc.htm#tumbling

______________________________________
Lastly………..
“I’ve been doing it for X years, I’ve never heard of anything going wrong. So, I believe that it’s all a myth.”
Well, make sure you read the 2nd post………

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/tumble.html
I admit that some powders may be more stable than others.

But IF an accident could happen (even with just one brand of powder).............wouldn't it just be better, to err on the side of safety?

Thus, the blanket warning NOT to tumble loaded ammo.

So……..what about a list of loaded ammo that can be tossed into a tumbler? Or a list of powders?
Humm……….
Testing a newly produced product is one thing. But, things may change over time (formulations, powder suppliers, etc.........). And, will that list still be valid 20, 30, 40+ years from now, when the product is kept under various (God only knows) conditions of storage? How can we be absolutely certain?

IMHO............SAFETY is the more important issue here. Especially, when dealing with someone else's life.

Ultimately……...YOU get to decide what’s right for YOU.
That was an old post of mine on this dead horse of a subject.

Aloha, Mark

PS...ok, ok, the Frog's Page was a dead link. So try this............

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellc.htm#tumbling

Quote:

A. Short term tumbling will have no real affect on loaded ammunition, but extensive tumbling can cause the breakdown of the powder grains. This would have two major effects. First, smaller grains will ignite more quickly than larger grains, and second the deterrent coating on the outside of the grains may be rubbed off and will be absent from any fractured edges which will cause the powder to burn more quickly raising pressures.
Tests run some years ago by a commercial entity did indicate that potentially dangerous changes in powder charge burning characteristics do take place after PROLONGED periods in either a vibratory or a tumbling cleaner.
The key word here is prolonged. Many manufacturers of ammunition do a final cleaning of their product either by tumbling or a vibratory process before boxing it for shipment. In no case is this allowed to exceed more than just a couple of minutes. The intent is not so much to "polish" but to remove any traces of contaminants which might in time leave marks on the finished product. There seems to be a consensus among the ammunition manufacturing engineers that a minute or two of vibratory cleaning has no discernable effect on burning rates, especially for loads that are compressed, or nearly so. However, all have emphasized the need for EXTREME CAUTION not to overdo the process.
They also pointed out that there is a considerable difference in effect on the powder charge depending on whether the process is by "tumbling" or "vibrating." It would appear that tumbling has less effect on the powder than vibrating, though this is mostly a matter of degree. The admonition to use EXTREME CAUTION to insure that the process never exceeds a couple of minutes applies equally to either process.
Ideally you should do your reloading after an extensive cleaning of the empty brass so any cleaning after loading is merely to remove traces of lube or to keep fingerprints from staining after a couple of months storage. A two stage process is recommended. One minute or so in a fairly abrasive cleaner with a tiny bit of solvent added to it to remove any traces of lube left on the brass, followed by one minute or so in clean corncob media to remove any traces of abrasive. Religiously follow several basic rules: use only a small amount of solvent and do the cleaning in a well ventilated area; change your media frequently, never letting it "load-up" with lube; and never "let it run while you do something else" and run the risk of letting it run too long and altering the burning rate of the powder.

Last edited by ma96782; 10-05-2013 at 07:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:31 AM
RogerFiler RogerFiler is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NE Texas
Posts: 2,210
Default

Save yourself some trouble and go here: Live ammo in a tumbler for 200 hours: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/303242_.html&page=1

Manufacturers tumble loaded ammo to remove lube.

David Tubb, 11-time National High Power Rifle Champion, tumbles his. (He says so in the Sierra video.) If you've ever watched that video, you know he is anal about every detail. and wouldn't do it if it changed the powder in any way.

Think about ammo made in WWII in Denver and trucked over the mountains to the west coast, or in Saint Louis and sent to the east coast. Those pre-war trucks weren't built for comfortable rides. The roads were bad - the interstate highway system wasn't started until 1956. The ammo was bounced, vibrated, and abused for days. Then it was put on ships where it was exposed to more days of engine vibrations and pounding waves. Then it was put back on trucks, jeeps, tanks whatever and beaten up again all the way to Germany or Japan. It worked fine.

Think about the .50 cal ammo in a P-51 on an escort mission to Berlin or Tokyo. It spent all day a few feet from a 1,400 horsepower engine. If it wasn't shot on that mission, it went again. There is no telling how many missions it went on before finally being used. It worked fine.

Surplus ammo from WWII is around 70 years old, and there is no telling what it has been subjected to over that time, but still seems to work OK.

I'm not going to worry about it.

I suspect the warnings from the tumbler manufacturers are lawyer CYA.
__________________
-
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." Aristotle
-
Google advanced search: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
In "site or domain" put: forums.thecmp.org
-
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:09 AM
Nodakdad Nodakdad is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 1,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerFiler View Post
Save yourself some trouble and go here: Live ammo in a tumbler for 200 hours: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/303242_.html&page=1

Manufacturers tumble loaded ammo to remove lube.
It's one of those things I have always wanted to try myself. I've tumbled ammo before and am on the "it's ok in moderation" camp. But I've never done it far a long time and pulled any of the bullets afterward. So off to the reloading bench.
__________________
25+ transactions, 100% Positive Itrader rating,
Until the dark day it was turned off

Josh
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:20 AM
AFBerryfarmer AFBerryfarmer is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mossy Head, Fl
Posts: 797
Default

I've been in the "ok to tumble" crowd. I'm always glad to see someone doing a reasonable experiment to debunk myths. After all I like watching Myth Busters! They usually get to blow something up.

Good luck, and great high quality pictures posted so far.
__________________
Another Larry
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member
Registered Voter
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:21 AM
hiller hiller is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: florida
Posts: 1,020
Default

Years ago it was taboo to tumble loaded ammo. I thought it might not hurt the ammo because like rogerflier said, ammo was being transported by train, plain, truck,ect. Shipped here, there and so on. And I thought what the hell, an hour in the tumbler couldn't be any rougher on loaded ammo than all the miles the military put on loaded ammo. So I did some chrono testing of tumbled ammo vs the same ammo un-tumbled. My velocity testing showed me that there was no difference in velocity between tumbled vs un-tumbled ammo. For me tumbling live ammo is a non-issue. I've tumbled thousands of rounds with zero difficulties. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do anything. I'm simply telling of my personal experience with tumbling. No problems here.




HILLER...............
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:52 PM
sigman2 sigman2 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 6,018
Default

Can you imagine the amount of vibration ammo endures running around in an armored vehicle?
__________________
CMP Customer # 131290
NRA Patron Member
Garand Collectors Association
Click Here For My Feedback

In honor of my father, Howard C. Ricks. Corporal, Co. E, 2nd Battalion, 20th Marine Engineers, 4th Marine Division. Later renamed Co. B, 4th Pioneer Battalion after Marianna Operation. Service dates February 1943 to October 31, 1945, Combat action: Roi-Namur, Saipan, Tinian and Iwo Jima. His rifle SA 893999 met "Captain Crunch".
http://wwiimemorial.com/Registry/pla...oreeID=1841138
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:39 PM
Don in SC Don in SC is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Up state South Carolina
Posts: 1,503
Default

Commercial ammo is tumbled before it is loaded into boxes to be sold. that's how the ammo company's make the ammo look so lovely to the buyers.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:48 PM
TEX001 TEX001 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ROSAMOND, CA
Posts: 42
Default

Tumbled to clean some .303 surplus ammo and it came out great. About 2 hours in tumbler. It also did not have any hang fires.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.