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Old 12-23-2013, 06:55 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Default Varget: What is this about Magnum Primers needed

I shoot a lot of Varget in 3006, 762x54R and 303 British. I use Tula or Win primers. I have had consistent performance with all primers and no issues due to temperatures.

Now I see mention here on the boards of the need for Magnum primers for Varget. I am unaware of any need for Mag primers but i am open to changing to them if there is a need to.

Your input on this please.

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2013, 07:28 AM
8milimeter 8milimeter is offline
 
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Default Varget

Varget is hard to ignite using lighter weight bullets.
110's and 125's
If you drop below the IMR recommended minimum charge it is helpful to use magnum primers.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:00 AM
colt100 colt100 is offline
 
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Or if you live in cold climates, like Wisconsin. You can get away with standard but I have had problems with some powders (not varget that I can remember) not lighting corrected with standard primers at times. I now just buy mag primers. Never have a problem with the mags.

Any reason you are against them?
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:00 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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I am not against magnums, just wondering what the issue is to use them with Varget as I have had no issues using regular primers iwth Varget. I do shoot 150 to 175 grain bullets and not lighter bullets and temps in winter here in Virginia may not be in the extreme lows that others encounter when shooting Varget.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:21 AM
aj98 aj98 is offline
 
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milprileb,

I'm in Southeast Va....I use mainly Fed 205, 205M, Fed LR, or CCI LR
w/ Varget.

Majority has been with 75gr 223, with 180 gr Krag, and 174gr 7.7 close behind...24-46gr powder.

Has worked well for me from 52 gr 223 up to 220gr Krag in temp ranges ~25F & snowing to ~100F with humidity nearly the same.
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2013, 09:24 AM
Hacker Hacker is offline
 
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Isn't the reason magnum primers are recommended for use in reloading for the Garand -- regardless of powder -- for slam-fire protection due to the free float firing pin?
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2013, 09:39 AM
7.62 7.62 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
Isn't the reason magnum primers are recommended for use in reloading for the Garand -- regardless of powder -- for slam-fire protection due to the free float firing pin?
NO. You use a hard primer. A rifle in spec will not slam fire by design. The firing pin will not move forward with in spec rifles chambered correctly in 30-06, with proper chamber dimensions.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:39 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
Isn't the reason magnum primers are recommended for use in reloading for the Garand -- regardless of powder -- for slam-fire protection due to the free float firing pin?
Could you start a new thread on that slam fire /primer subject so this thread can address only Mag primers and Varget discussion. Thanks so much.
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2013, 10:32 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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I experienced hang fires and occasional misfires while using VarGet in 30-06 lite bullet loads. VarGet is touted as an "extreme" powder--relatively insensitive to temperature/velocity variations. This does not in any way address it's "ignitability" although the velocity variation between a cartridge that fires and one that doesn't is considerable and perhaps should be considered. I had a conversation with the company rep and did some testing. Bottom line is VarGet is not good in reduced loads (according to the rep). I was using 50grs with 110gr bullets--no crimp. Rep said "no good--use at least 55grs". I determined after testing lube and water contamination, primers, case weight, neck lube, etc. etc. that bullet pull and obviously weight were the essential factors causing the hangfires; although many other factors are part of the equation. With no crimp and lite bullets, lubing the case neck would consistently produce a high percentage of hang fires. I avoid VarGet in nonstandard applications and use 4895 or 3031 instead--as these powders are suggested as suitable for reduced loads. I did not imagine the hang fire problem and actually saw plasticized VarGet in a number of instances. The magnum primers are part of the equation and certainly do not hurt anything in CMP shooting, but they will not solve the problem alone. If you want to see ignition problems (30-06), here is a formula is approximate order of importance: 1. lube the case neck--and don't crimp. 2. Cold. 3. VarGet--in a reduced load. 4. Lite bullet- 110-125grs. 5. Standard primers. 6. Lite cases--as Hornady. 7. Reduced firing pin strike, failure to seat primers fully, excessive headspace, etc.--all reducing the firing pin energy. 8. Case interior contamination--say water, lube or what-ever. 9. Anything else I may have forgotten. Studied comment welcome..... Good Shooting......
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2013, 11:21 AM
Mad_Gorilla Mad_Gorilla is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
Isn't the reason magnum primers are recommended for use in reloading for the Garand -- regardless of powder -- for slam-fire protection due to the free float firing pin?

That's the reason for the CCI-34. It is a magnum level primer, but the difference in the anvil is what makes it mil-spec. The anvil is a tad shorter, so it takes a full strength blow from the firing pin to fire it. A lighter blow, such as you get from an inertia hit, doesn't hit hard enough to fire it.

To answer the OP's question, a mag primer pressurizes the inside of the case faster and ensures that you get good reliable ignition with powder charges that leave a lot of air space in the case. The sweet spot load of Varget/4064/4895 is about 46 gr. That leaves about 25% of the powder space as air. None of those three is particularly hard to ignite, but with a mag primer you get more consistent ignition shot to shot than you do with standard primers. More consistent ignition gives you less extreme spread and generally smaller SD, and that helps accuracy. Of course, every rifle is different, so all that may help or it may not, but it usually does.
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