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  #1  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:23 PM
Flemjasmo Flemjasmo is offline
 
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Default M4 Bayonet - What do I have?

Back in the mid 80’s I purchased a bayonet for an Inland Carbine at a Dallas Gun Show. Can’t recall what I paid for it, but since I was in high school I doubt very much (Imagine that! A kid was allowed to purchase a real military bayonet!).

However, after that it just sat around forgotten about and stayed with the carbine as I left for school. Time has passed and it has now made it back into my hands along with the carbine.

I still hadn’t really given it a second thought, until the recent traffic around the potential inbound Garand bayonets. After seeing some of the prices on those guys I am all of a sudden re-interested in the old M4. Honestly I wouldn’t sell it, but it would be nice to know where (if) it fits into the collector’s spectrum.

So honestly I know nothing about bayonets, Carbine or otherwise, but this is what I see:

On the underside of the guard – U.S. M4 CAMILLUS (I think?)
Back of the Pommel - 72 and S with a slash through the lower half (Maybe a stylistic SI?)

Scabbard – U.S.M8A1 and VIZ
Snap – RAUF. CO PROV R.I.

The blade and all metal parts are gray parkerized and is sharpened (is that bad?)
The handle is stacked leather (in VG+ shape)

That’s about all I can say so if there are any experts out there: What do I have?

Junk? Prize? Reproduction? Somewhere in between?

Here are some photos – if you need more just let me know.

http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/w...view=slideshow

Thanks for your time and help,
Flem
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:57 PM
deputy85 deputy85 is offline
 
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it looks good to me, i couldnt picture there being to many repros, on the market back in the 80s were most likely a glut of real ones and a shortage of carbines to put them on,
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2009, 07:13 PM
guncotton guncotton is offline
 
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http://usmilitaryknives.com/bayonet_points.htm

Your answer is at the link. You may have one of the M4's from the last production run made by Camillus similar in pattern to post ww2 and korean war mfg. The flaming ORD Bomb is stamped on WW2 production. May be a collectable as Camillus is out of business and fewer than 30K of the new run M4's (intended for commercial sales) were produced having the leather handles.

Finally saw the slides........looks like WW2 vice Korean war period production. I'm having trouble viewing your slides enlarged and can't good details. Visit Bayo points 8 and see the pics: Examine your pommel for the starburst pattern peen and numbers and also nonstaked or staked catch pins. You could have the first production ww2 with nonstaked catch pins.

Last edited by guncotton; 12-09-2009 at 01:18 AM. Reason: corrections and comments
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2009, 10:08 PM
Flemjasmo Flemjasmo is offline
 
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Thanks for the link Guncotton. It looks like it has a ton of into to dig through. Ill review and post what I find.

As a reference, can you be specific about what you saw on the sides that looks Korean period? And the sides of the scabbard of blade?



Thanks,
Flem

Thanks for the extra comments - looks WWII to me as well. See summary below.

Last edited by Flemjasmo; 12-09-2009 at 12:34 PM. Reason: commenting on the comments.
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2009, 11:04 AM
BQ97 BQ97 is offline
 
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Look closely at the blade on yours and compare it to the WWII Camillus, the 1953 contract Camillus and commercial M4s Camillus sold.

The stylistic SI is really SP, as in Standard Products.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2009, 12:31 PM
Flemjasmo Flemjasmo is offline
 
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OK upon review of the "bayonet points" site and the comments above here is what it looks like to me. See what you think?


First the M18A1 scabbard.

As described in article 18 (http://usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_18.htm) this appears to be a Vietnam era Viz Manfg. scabbard from their ~1967 contract. There was not much mystery here, the stamp is called out by name and photo example and the snaps have the correct maker stamps so this looks like a legitimate item to me. It is a little later than I expected as I didn’t expect there to be new M1 Carbine related products going out the door that late.


Now the Bayonet itself.

First off I made a fairly important oversight on an additional marking in the photos and original post! Sorry about that. There IS a clear and strong US ordinance flaming bomb stamped on the hand guard. It is just on the opposite side of the name stamp and somehow I missed it. I added another photo for reference in the slideshow.

So here are the feature ID hits off of the Camillus article number 8 (http://usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_8.htm). This was a great article and seems to clearly flag it as WWII to me.

- Flaming bomb stamp on guard. WWII only
- Closed font “4” in M4 stamp. WWII only
- Plastic inserts around leather. Never noticed them before, but WWII only
- Standard products pommel. Interlaced SP stamp. WWII only
- Catch pins tapered and not staked – WWII only
- Numbers stamped on Pommel - WWII only
- Parked pommel – WWII and Korea
- Sunburst peening of tang. WWII and Korea

So more WWII exclusives while there are some in common with Korea. In either case it looks like a non-reproduction, WWII likely bayonet to me.

From a production run standpoint it makes it sound like the 1953 Camillus is a LOT more rare, but it also sounds like the WWII Camillus is still a very desirable bayonet. The article seems to be careful not to call out values. Any idea on that aspect?

In any case thanks for everyone’s time. Maybe this info will also help others.

Flem

Last edited by Flemjasmo; 12-09-2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason: spelling!!
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2009, 01:27 PM
grits grits is offline
 
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Default $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

saw one at gunshow this past week=end $100. In Atlanta
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2009, 02:54 PM
Flemjasmo Flemjasmo is offline
 
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I can live with $100. That is definitely 5X or more than what I guess I originally paid for it.

As a convenient coincidence here is a timely flea pay auction for a WWII Camillus M4. Mine looks like it beats it out for condition, but since this starts at $0.99 and there is no reserve is will give me an interesting value benchmark.


http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-WW2-US-Cami...item1c0e95ce72

Still not interested in selling mine but it will be fun to know.

Flem
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:06 PM
Rondog Rondog is offline
 
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I recently bought this set on eBay for $152.50, $160 shipped. Too high, I know, but it's in excellent shape. I remember as a kid, the local surplus store had big wooden boxes full of all kinds of bayonets, for like $5 each. I mean they had scads of them! US, German, Japanese, British, you name it. They were plentiful and cheap, people bought 'em for camping, hunting and tackle boxes. Back in the '60's, when Army Surplus stores sold real Army Surplus, not imported crap. I even remember them having some kind of big, long bayos with wicked saw teeth on the back of the blade.

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  #10  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:32 PM
BQ97 BQ97 is offline
 
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Flemjasmo look closely at the blade of your bayonet.



Now look at the blades on the three versions of Camillus bayontes from Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points page.



Now look at the blade on the commercial K.I. bayonet (lower one) from Bayonet Points.



Here is a WWII era end cap, hand guard and WWII ACC cross guard mated to a post war commercial blade I have in my collection.

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