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  #1  
Old 05-24-2011, 07:10 PM
340six 340six is offline
 
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Default Hornady Grand Loads

I have the 8th edition and assume that the starting loads on up will function in a good operating Garand with no changes to the guns?
Picked up some Hornady 150 grain FMJ-BT and have Varget on the self
So was looking for imput as I would like to use the Start Load as a good plinking shooting round.
As it would be low recoil unless others have have a problem with that being to light or not accurate at all
Thanks
Loads listed are
2400fps 43.3 grains Varget
2500fps 44.2 grains Varget
and max
2600 46.4 grains Varget
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2011, 07:20 PM
pmclaine pmclaine is offline
 
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I'm learning that you could go with a bullet in the 125 weight for plinking (100 yards) saving some cash and cut down on recoil. Something to think about.
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  #3  
Old 05-24-2011, 08:34 PM
340six 340six is offline
 
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Thanks
I was able to grab 3 boxes of 100 each {what they had} at $19.99 each So that's what I got. About the same as getting some on the net and walked out the door.

Was really wanting to know if the Hornday loads posted above work well or ig anyone had problems with them Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 05-24-2011, 10:32 PM
dswancutt dswancutt is offline
 
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I have been loading 44.8 grains of H 4895 with the BT-FMJ Hornady at 2500 fps and have had no failures to function.
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2011, 03:19 PM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
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CAUTION: Some of the load data below is exceeds manual maximums. What is described worked in MY GUN with MY LOTS of components. There is no guarantee express or implied that they will be safe in YOUR GUN. What I describe also includes computer calculations that are only known by me to be valid in MY GUN with MY COMPONENT LOTS. You should knock loads I describe down 10% and know how to work them up to check their validity in YOUR GUN with YOUR COMPONENT LOTS without damaging your gun. As with all Internet gun data, my opinions and statements are only worth what you've paid for them until you've proved they are valid with your equipment. Neither I, nor, I am sure, the CMP forum or its other members assume any responsibility for what you do with the information here. I'll try not to mislead you, but don't believe what you haven't proven for yourself.

The Hornady loads are notoriously light. See this thread. QuickLOAD (QL) predicts 46.2 grains of Varget giving 38,539 psi peak pressure and 2602 fps with the assumptions I use. This is a good match to Hornady’s velocity of 2600 fps for the combination, so I think the program is tracking that pretty well. The assumptions I use are:
  • Hornady 150 grain FMJ seated to 3.185" COL (cannelure to case mouth)
  • LC case expanding to 69.3 grains water capacity inside the chamber (as measured after firing in one of my military chambers)
  • The Varget powder model very slightly adjusted by burn rate and bulk density to match the last 8 lb jug I bought).
47 grains of IMR 4895 would, according to QL, get you the same result. But John Clark's article from the mid-80's (before there was Varget) runs IMR 4895 warmer than 47 grains. IMR 4895 canister grades have been pretty stable performers over the years, so this is likely to be close to what you’d find today, except the capacities of some brass brands have changed a bit, warranting a new work up. The military brass has not change, though, AFAIK:

150 Sierra HPBT Match:
  • IMR-4895 48.5gr, 2,711fps LCM case
  • IMR-4895 48.5gr, 2,725fps LC54 case
  • IMR-4895 48.5gr, 2,655fps FC case
  • IMR-4895 50.0gr, 2,866fps FC case
That last load is close to some lots of military M2 ball, both in the load reported and the velocity. Keep in mind the military measures rifle velocity at 78 feet, so what is 2866 at 15 feet from the muzzle will be about 2800 at the 78 foot mark.

If I run 48.5 grains of IMR 4895 in QuickLOAD, keeping my other assumptions, I get 2730 fps. That indicates my assumptions run very close to Clark's LC54 case. To get a matching pressure of 41,900 psi from Varget, I need to load 47.7 grains but get only 2678 fps because Varget is a little faster and doesn't keep pressure up as well near the muzzle. On the plus side, that means the gas port pressure from using Varget is a little lower.

I’ve run 49.0 grains of Varget (one of my best 150 grain bullet accuracy loads) and stayed well within peak pressure for the cartridge and still don't have as much gas port pressure as Clark's 48.5 grain load of IMR 4895 reaches. I have to go to 51.5 grains of Varget to match the port pressure of 48.5 grains of 4895 in the software, and that still doesn't exceed .30-06 peak pressure specs on the computer.

In my own experimenting I've worked up to 52 grains of Varget under the heavier 175 grain Sierra MatchKing in the Garand without getting any case head expansion or excessive primer flattening or cratering. I did, however, use a vented gas cylinder plug to prevent overworking the op-rod. This gun was being set up for 1000 yard shooting using a new Barnett heavy barrel, so it had a minimum chamber set by a pull-through headspacing reamer.

I know that load looks scary. I ran it awhile back, when I was still using Federal 210M primers. Warmer primers would increase the pressure (another reason to knock it down 10% before trying different components). A 10% reduction in that load, according to QL, makes about a 25% reduction in chamber peak pressure and about a 7% reduction in gas port pressure. Gas port pressure changes a lot less than peak chamber pressure, which is why some pretty low loads can still run the gun. Note that the load I just described exceeds some published maximums even for bolt guns, though. And I am not recommending it, but just illustrating how far below practical Garand maximums for all but the most beat up guns and op-rods that the Hornady data is. That 52 grain Varget load did not turn out to be a best accuracy load, BTW. 49.7 grains was best with that primer and powder and the 175 gr. SMK. With the 150, 49.0 grains and 46.5 grains have both been good in my guns with the Hornady bullet seated as described.
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Last edited by Unclenick; 05-25-2011 at 03:27 PM.
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  #6  
Old 05-25-2011, 08:55 PM
Ericc Ericc is offline
 
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For Varget with 155gr A-Max or Lapua Scenar with COL = 3.230" I get the following data: (Velocity at 15 feet)

41.0gr / 2272 FPS / Peak Gas cylinder pressure 1696psi with impulse 116.7lb-sec

46.3gr / 2504 FPS / Peak Gas cylinder pressure 1912psi with impulse 123.4lb-sec

51.6gr / 2775 FPS / Peak Gas cylinder pressure 1879psi with impulse 124.3lb-sec


For reference HXP-65 is Peak Gas Cylinder pressure ~1890psi with impulse 126lb-sec

Eric
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  #7  
Old 05-25-2011, 09:51 PM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
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For those having trouble following, Ericc has given pressure in the gas cylinder. I gave the driving pressure at the bore side of the gas port. Since the bullet is just about to leave the muzzle when that pressure appears, it only has time to drive enough gas through the hole to get to Ericc's pressures in the cylinder before it uncorks the muzzle and pressure drops.
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Last edited by Unclenick; 05-26-2011 at 08:32 AM. Reason: typo fix
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2011, 06:20 PM
.22shooter .22shooter is offline
 
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I'm finding as well that the recent Hornady publishing's are low/light. I use it as a reference and have worked up from their Garand loads.

You certainly are okay starting where you are. I can only speak for myself but I ended up over their listed maximums.

The best and most reliable advice/information any one has given you thus far is Ericc.
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  #9  
Old 05-27-2011, 07:39 PM
hogman4life hogman4life is offline
 
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Thumbs up Hornady A-Max Load

This is the most accurate load I have found. I use it in my M-1's and 1903's and have used it ever since Hornady came out with the A-Max bullets:

Remington cases
44.3 grs. of H-4895 powder
168gr. Hornady A-Max bullet
Federal Gold Medal Match primers.
This yields about 2,650fps.
This is a little milder than what CMP sells.
Sub one inch groups at 100yds. everytime.
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  #10  
Old 06-06-2011, 03:41 PM
GarandGrabber GarandGrabber is online now
 
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You have a Garand that will shoot sub 1 MOA groups? Wanna sell it?
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