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  #1  
Old 10-15-2011, 12:50 PM
majuba majuba is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 48
Default six digit M1 danish return: your opinion?

You know I'm italian and, in my country, is very, very hard to find a correct WWII M1.
In any case I have found a sex digit M1 with a 42 receiver and a 43 barrell and I'm sure that It's a danish retourn (There is the tipical serial number on the bolt).
I have another six digit M1 with a 41 receiver and a 42 barrell, poste here http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=50067.
In your experience and opionion, was a common practice place a new barrell during the WWII, or, more probably, is it a job of the Danish arsenal?
Here the pics.
Sorry, of course, for my bad English.
http://s1196.photobucket.com/albums/...%20M1%2042-43/
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  #2  
Old 10-15-2011, 10:08 PM
Blood_of_Tyrants Blood_of_Tyrants is offline
 
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It is the same here. Hard to find a receiver with the original barrel. Many M1s were rebarrelled in the field, but 41 and 42 were a bit too early for field repairs using barrels with those dates. It is likely that the Danes rebarrelled it as we left hundreds of thousands of M1s with our allies after WWII.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2011, 02:24 AM
Mac O tac Mac O tac is offline
 
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I cannot answer the barrel questions and I cannot answer for the entire American populace but, the only Americans that I know that speak good English are British Americans and/or school teachers. Good luck with finding out the requested info.

Mac
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2011, 03:50 AM
jerryjeff jerryjeff is offline
 
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A Danish return would be returned to the United States,no?
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2011, 05:01 AM
majuba majuba is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryjeff View Post
A Danish return would be returned to the United States,no?
...or in Italy
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2011, 12:00 PM
Amish Bob Amish Bob is offline
 
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I am posting some information that appeared in the old Jouster forum in 1999. This might help answer some of your questions.


In April of 1949, the North Atlantic Treaty was signed by 12 European countries. Two of these countries were Italy and Denmark. This NATO alliance brought with it a determination to modernize and standardize NATO equipment.
The Truman Doctrine (military aid) and the Marshall Plan (economic aid) allowed the U.S. to equip these new NATO countries with the M1 rifle and accessories.
The Danish army put the M1 into service as the G M/50. Gevaer Model 1950 (1950-model rifle). This would indicate that Denmark received their first shipments of M1's sometime in 1950. The italian designation was 'Rifle Model 1951' indicating it's year of adoption in Italy.
In 1952, the privately owned italian firm Beretta was chosen by NATO as the new offshore European producer of new M1's and spare parts for the NATO countries. Ex-Winchester machinery was provided to Beretta from the U.S.. Breda, then a state-owned interprise, was also brought into M1 production for the Italian army.
In the mid 50's Denmark bought a quantity of Beretta and Breda rifles from Italy.
Sometime in the 60's, Denmark manufactured their own barrels (VAR) also manufactured their own stocks, slings, and possibly bayonets for the M1.
The M1 was in service with the Danish military from 1950 to the early 90's. Consequently, these rifles would have been re-built, refinished and parts replaced in the last 40 years. This would explain the mixture of U.S., Italian and Danish parts now found in these rifles or their parts kits.
Information as to the numbers of rifles acquired by Denmark from the U.S. and Italy is not known. Hope this helps. Mike D.
I looked at you pictures and would note: the 2SA bolts were commonly used when rebuilding rifles that were having a "head space issue". These bolts were very slightly longer and "filled the gap" so to speak with this problem. Also as others have noted anything is possible with receiver/barrel dates on rebuilds during and after the war. Possibably your rifle came direct to Italy after it was rebuilt. Some rebuilding took place in known (and unknown) locations in Europe where they were stored after WWII.

Hope that helps,

AB
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:04 AM
majuba majuba is offline
 
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Yes, AB,
your informations are very interests to me.
Of course, It would be very enlightening to know how and where the M1s were rebuild in Europe.
Fos example: in Italy we had the arsenal of Terni where Marshall Plan M1s (used and brand new) arrived in the early 50s. Here rifles were certainly rebuild and repair (time a time again), and spare parts at the early had got, probably, from unserviciable (for other reason) rifle, stored ad after caught randomly. Then, when Beretta and Breda started to produce spare parts, these were send at the Arsenal and utilezed.
Unfortunately, in Italy is quite impossible find a WWII E.I. (Esercito Italiano) M1 in the original cal. 30.06 with mix parts and with an original barrel, beacause in the late 50s/early 60s almost all Garand in italian arsenal were rebarreled with a 7,62 m/m barrel and we got the T1 and the T2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amish Bob View Post
I am posting some information that appeared in the old Jouster forum in 1999. This might help answer some of your questions.


In April of 1949, the North Atlantic Treaty was signed by 12 European countries. Two of these countries were Italy and Denmark. This NATO alliance brought with it a determination to modernize and standardize NATO equipment.
The Truman Doctrine (military aid) and the Marshall Plan (economic aid) allowed the U.S. to equip these new NATO countries with the M1 rifle and accessories.
The Danish army put the M1 into service as the G M/50. Gevaer Model 1950 (1950-model rifle). This would indicate that Denmark received their first shipments of M1's sometime in 1950. The italian designation was 'Rifle Model 1951' indicating it's year of adoption in Italy.
In 1952, the privately owned italian firm Beretta was chosen by NATO as the new offshore European producer of new M1's and spare parts for the NATO countries. Ex-Winchester machinery was provided to Beretta from the U.S.. Breda, then a state-owned interprise, was also brought into M1 production for the Italian army.
In the mid 50's Denmark bought a quantity of Beretta and Breda rifles from Italy.
Sometime in the 60's, Denmark manufactured their own barrels (VAR) also manufactured their own stocks, slings, and possibly bayonets for the M1.
The M1 was in service with the Danish military from 1950 to the early 90's. Consequently, these rifles would have been re-built, refinished and parts replaced in the last 40 years. This would explain the mixture of U.S., Italian and Danish parts now found in these rifles or their parts kits.
Information as to the numbers of rifles acquired by Denmark from the U.S. and Italy is not known. Hope this helps. Mike D.
I looked at you pictures and would note: the 2SA bolts were commonly used when rebuilding rifles that were having a "head space issue". These bolts were very slightly longer and "filled the gap" so to speak with this problem. Also as others have noted anything is possible with receiver/barrel dates on rebuilds during and after the war. Possibably your rifle came direct to Italy after it was rebuilt. Some rebuilding took place in known (and unknown) locations in Europe where they were stored after WWII.

Hope that helps,

AB
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2011, 07:55 AM
captaincalc captaincalc is offline
 
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Location: Ohio
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Regarding rebuilds: I don't see why a 1942 couldn't be rebuilt in the field during WW2. Were the armorers - in 1943, for example, only allowed to use 1943 barrels? I'd think the guys in '44 and '45 would use whatever they had on hand. There were any number of ways a barrel could be made out of service. That being said, it could have been done in Denmark, too. I'm pretty sure I read the Danes got barrels from us, too. I don't recall any method of determining if the Danes did it or not. Nobody was thinking of us CMP guys back then --- they were distracted, I guess.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2011, 10:16 PM
Amish Bob Amish Bob is offline
 
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Location: Steeler Country, PA
Posts: 565
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majuba,

I have been looking in my archives trying to find a picture of a USGI armorer setting in a tent with a pile of broken guns Garands Carbines etc. It looks like it was taken in Europe during the war. The pile went almost to the ceiling of the tent. He was sitting in front of a large bucket of cleaning fluid and working on a Garand.

I can't find the picture but I'm sure someone here has a copy of it. It struck me when I first saw it, that it's no wonder the parts are mis-matched with all the parts he had available to put them back together.

Even when our troups were chasing the Germans out of your country, our armorers were there making repairs, so your gun may have never left the country.

I agree however, that the engraved bolt is a dead give away for a Danish model. After Denmark adopted a new standard rifle, they gave back the "lend Lease" garands but the ones they bought from us were sold off thru Europe and Canada I believe. Our government at that time would not let anyone import them back into this country. A Canadian company then removed the receivers and sold what remained of the Garand as "parts kits". Looking back now, they were a bargin

AB
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