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  #11  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:24 PM
chuter chuter is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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There's nothing "wrong" with mixed parts guns and no one should bash them. They will probably function perfectly and will shoot well for a long, long time. But, we are talking market value of a gun. A gun that has all the same manufacturer's parts simply attracts more collectors and more money. Just like other guns that are more rare. US&S 1911's draw top dollar but I'll never fire one because I'm concerned about their manufacturing quality yet, they are rare and collectors will pay more for it than others. My Remington-Rand 1911A1 shoots as well as my Colt 1911A1 or later commercial 1911A1's but it costs a whole lot more. The more rare the weapon, the better investment it is too and in some cases is considered only an investment and not a weapon.
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:15 AM
kraigwy kraigwy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NE Wyoming
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I can't tell you about the price as I haven't been keeping up.

I can tell you about Mix-Masters. I believe all 1911s are Mix Masters. They have been around a long time, and GIs have been around a long time. GIs mix parts on 1911/1911a1s.

To give you an example of what I'm talking about I'll relate a couple stories.

I went to MP AIT at Ft. Gordon in 1966. This other guy and I screwed up and spent the weekend cleaning the schools pistol. A couple hundred of them. We had an assembly line lined up. We took all the guns apart and stacked them by parts, slides here, barrels there, etc.

We then wend down the line cleaning the parts. Afterward we picked up a frame, walked down the roll adding parts until we had a finish product with no concern or attempt to get the original parts back to the original frame. MIX MATCHED.

Fast forward several years. I ran the marksmanship program for the Alaska National Guard. We had two programs, Composite and Combat. The Combat teams were suppose to use "arms room" guns. Problem was, commanders were reluctant to let their weapons get checked out for practice and matches.

I ordered and received 4 1911a1s for each BN and Spt Company, plus 10 ea for the State Program. Before issuing the pistols I had the guys from my pistol team strip and switch parts until the 10 I had were the best shooters to be use in competition.

I also had my personal 1911a1 thrown in the pile to make it the best shooter possible by trying and switching different parts.

These are just two incidents from one guy; I'm sure I'm not the only ones who pulled something like this.

So I don't put any credence in a statement when some one says his 1911 isn't a mix match.

The gun was made to have interchangeable parts. It doesn't hurt it a bit.
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  #13  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:29 PM
hink441 hink441 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
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I would expect any M1911 still in the Army at 1966 to be a mix master. But some pistols are still in original condition, and these are sought after and get very expensive. Early Colt 1911A1s had the serial number stamped on the slide, so you can tell if it is original to the frame.
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  #14  
Old 03-25-2012, 03:08 PM
Milsurp Collector Milsurp Collector is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hink441 View Post
I would expect any M1911 still in the Army at 1966 to be a mix master. But some pistols are still in original condition, and these are sought after and get very expensive. Early Colt 1911A1s had the serial number stamped on the slide, so you can tell if it is original to the frame.
+1

Original 1911's and 1911A1's are rarer and therefore more more valuable/expensive than the more common mixmaster. That isn't saying that mixmasters are "bad" or should be "slammed", they are just more common (because of the parts swapping described previously) and therefore less valuable/expensive.

There is a 1911 collector named John Holbrook - who is also the inventor of the Holbrook Device to prevent "Garand thumb" http://m1thumbsaver.com/ - who posts some of his finds on Gunboards and 1911 forums. Some of his pistols:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holbrook
Ens. Tom Anderson"s Pearl Harbor Colt..
Ens Tom Anderson was the OOD of the USS UTAH on Dec 7, 1941. He had just assumed the watch at 0800, when the first torpedo struck the ship at 0805. He was wearing this rig at the time. He survived the attack and was assigned to the 14Th Naval District Sampan Group on Dec 26, 1941 and kept the whole rig throughout the war.. I spoke to him personally while he was in a nursing home in Snohomish, WA before his death.... Look up the 14TH Naval District Sampan Group on the INTERNET. It was very interesting...





Ens. Tom Anderson USNR..

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holbrook
A beautiful USMC 1941 Colt M1911A1...
This Colt was carried by Colonel William K. Lanman USMC who was a Naval Aviator...



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holbrook2
A pair of NIB DuLite Remington Rands..
Note the different paper. That's the way I got them, so I left them as is!!! Also note the different radius at the top front of the dust cover.. 971161 is much rounder. And the stocks are different..

1013501 has to be one of the last of the DuLite type..



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holbrook View Post


If you search for threads on Gunboards started by John Holbrook http://forums.gunboards.com/search.php?search_type=1 you can see more of his fantastic collection.

Last edited by Milsurp Collector; 03-25-2012 at 04:11 PM. Reason: fixed expired link
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  #15  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:24 PM
Scott Gahimer Scott Gahimer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 79
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There isn't anything "wrong" with buying a rebuilt or mixed parts pistol...if that is what you want and what you pay for.

M1911 and M1911A1 pistols are entirely different than Garand and M1 Carbiines when it comes to collecting original examples. There never was a rebuild scheduled for pistols, as was for the rilfes.

Pistols were only rebuilt if they required repair. Pistols were primarily issued to officers and NCOs. The stories you hear about "cleaning parties" and parts swapping do not generally apply...except at training facilities and post-WWII. Most pistols were issued to an individual and he maintained control of that pistol. As previously mentioned, many were pilfered and came home exactly as manufactured and issued. Some officers were required to purchase their pistols and maintained control of it until they either retired or came back home after the war.

As a longtime collector of pistols, I assure you, while all original pistols are not common with Internet and gun show sales, many original pistols exist in collections today. It's much easier to acquire an all original pistol than it is a rifle.
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  #16  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:31 PM
jabbo jabbo is offline
 
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Posts: 296
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I have a 1911A1 that has a Remington Rand lower and a Colt upper...I would certainly be willing to talk to anyone that has a 1911A1 with a Colt lower and a Remington Rand upper...regardless of why either of us possess such a mixmaster....
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  #17  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Hardcase Hardcase is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 51
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I know that the various 1911A1s that I carried at sea from 1987 to 1992 were mostly mixmasters. I think that our Surface Group was one of the last squadrons to swap out the .45s for Berettas, so by that time, the 1911s were pretty long in the tooth. But the precious few times that we got to put rounds on paper, they were quite accurate - certainly accurate enough for the close range that you'd find on a Navy frigate.
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  #18  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:29 AM
kraigwy kraigwy is offline
 
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Location: NE Wyoming
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I concur, nothing wrong with "mix masters" thats the way the pistol was designed, so it can be a "mix master" . I consider a USGI 1911/1911a1 to be legit if it has USGI parts. I don't buy the "correct" or "matching" number bit on 1911s, I don't believe that animal exist out side of museums.

My 1911a1 has a Colt frame and USSC slide. It's all USGI parts, and it shoots.

The 1911/1911a1 was the first real "plug and play" system I know of.

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  #19  
Old 03-26-2012, 01:09 PM
hink441 hink441 is offline
 
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Location: Virginia
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[QUOTE=kraigwy;564486]I don't buy the "correct" or "matching" number bit on 1911s, I don't believe that animal exist out side of museums./QUOTE]

Well you can buy what ever you like. The fact is that there are original pistols out there, and they really are not that hard to find. I own a couple and I also own a couple of mixmasters. They are out there and it is fun finding them. Here is a 1943 Colt I have that is original.


Last edited by hink441; 03-26-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:03 PM
mwu1234 mwu1234 is offline
 
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Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
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When I was in the service from 78-1999, I had a colt 45 until 92 when we got the Beretta. I can remember getting new slides, firing pins, barrels, springs, etc.. and changing out the parts every couple of years. The 45 pistols in my unit were very well weathered and used. So You can figure about 90% of Army 45's are mixmastered pistols, which I have no problems with as long as they shoot.
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