Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > M1 Garand
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-20-2012, 10:36 PM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMPUser3022 View Post
How were the USN SAMCU San Diego conversions marked? I think they used especially made barrels from SA, not H&R or AMF. I'm referring to Bart Bobbitt's article on Navy Conversions. I also don't think there is any documentation on these rifles to prove what they are.

H&R and AMF were contractors that did the conversions under Navy contract so they were required too stamp there work. The Navy wasn't, thats why some are unmarked. Any rifle that the Navy converted or SAMCU converted are stampless, Thats why its very important too get documentation from the person selling the rifle or from Cmdr.Jim Adell.

The Navy used barrels made for them under contract from Springfield Armory, Yes there were 2 7.62mm barrels made at SA with 3 production runs, barrel SA#11010457 SPL was made in 5/65 and ended, production resumed again in Sept/65 with barrel SA#11010457 and then ended again in Dec/65.

The last run of 7.62 barrels for M1 rifles from Springfield Armory started and stoped in March, this barrel is marked SA#11686514 3/66. Its these barrels that Bart Bobbitt talks about being a special run for the Navy SAMCU.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-20-2012, 10:51 PM
Emmett Dunham Emmett Dunham is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,045
Default

I know that the barrels were marked with the measurements they made and the ones that were over specification were not used and they are also marked 7.62. The barrels that were out of specification were sold and a lot of fakes you see will have these barrels in them. There use to be a good artical on line about the rifles but I could not find it and the two items I listed are all I can remember. Its too bad they killed all of the info on the old CMP web site there was a lot of great posts on this rifle there.

Emmett
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:35 AM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 329
Default

Bart Bobbitt, talks about Don "Mac" McCoy Chief USN ret.as a major player in the SAMCU 7.62 M1 rifles, him and another person that I forget the name of airguaged all of the SA#11686514 3/66 barrels and marked the barrels bore diameter on top of the chamber area using a grease pencle or soapstone, the barrels that gauged NM spec or better were used for Team rifles about 10% of the 3000 made, and the next best were held in reserve for replacement Team use.

Many barrels were sold off on the side, traded for, and in a few cases where they just grew legs and walked off the Navy van at Camp Perry. I know that NWSC Crane still has many more in storage. I have seen a few Air Force Premium Grade rifles with the Navy's 3/66 barrels from the CMP auction page and at the CMP's Western Games rifle sales, so that supports the trade and barter system with the Airforce.

The Navy's 7.62mm M1 rifles and the barrels that they traded too the Airforce Team must of had positive and lasting effect on them, the Airforce contracted with Rock Island Arsenal for there own 7.62mm M1 barrel, it is marked RIA 11686320 SPL 6/69 M118 and has the same 1/12 rate of twist. Springfield Armory closed down in Apr/68.

The barrel that I picked up was new with muzzle/chamber caps and VCI straw down the tube about 2 years ago it had a 81 on top of its chamber so I will assume the bore diameter of .3081 untell someone convincess otherwise. No I didn't ask the seller where or how he aquired it, I was more than happy to pay his asking price of $225 shipped and insured.

Last edited by Phil McGrath; 07-21-2012 at 12:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:23 AM
surplusshooter surplusshooter is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: East central Illinois
Posts: 1,234
Default

I have also read that the 7.62 MM barrels that were marked SA 11686514 3-66 are the best of the best. Special run, super accurate. Simple question: What does "SAMCU" stand for ? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:21 AM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surplusshooter View Post
I have also read that the 7.62 MM barrels that were marked SA 11686514 3-66 are the best of the best. Special run, super accurate. Simple question: What does "SAMCU" stand for ? Thanks.

That the Navy's, Small Arms Match Conditioning Unit is/was located in San Diego Calf, the Marines have the samething there's is called PWS for Precision Weapons Shop, its location is Quantico Virginia.

Last edited by Phil McGrath; 07-21-2012 at 02:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:07 AM
jerryjeff jerryjeff is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 3,546
Default

Now we have some real imformation.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-21-2012, 07:24 AM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryjeff View Post
Now we have some real imformation.

As a side note, probably the last Gov't sourced and pruduced barrels for the M1 Garand came from RIA made on machinery placed in storage from Springfield Armory. RIA barrel production ended with the end of there 03 production.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:36 PM
CMPUser3022 CMPUser3022 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Free State of Tennessee
Posts: 228
Default

Quote:
The last run of 7.62 barrels for M1 rifles from Springfield Armory started and stoped in March, this barrel is marked SA#11686514 3/66. Its these barrels that Bart Bobbitt talks about being a special run for the Navy SAMCU.
I have Garand with an SA 11686514 4 66 barrel. It was targeted with an upright T. It also has AA with the cross cannon acceptance at the end of the numbers. At least it looks like the cross cannon acceptance stamp. A large 7.62 is electropenciled in the bolt and, of course, the white spacer. It seems to be out of the date range you mentioned. What does that mean? Jim Adell doesn't have any documentation on this rifle.
These were suppose to be built by the Navy on new, not previously used, receivers at the time. Mine's on a SA 434XXXX receiver, which as it turns out, the Navy had issued to them from SA in the 42 to 43XXXXX range post war. I took a chance and bought this rifle a long time ago because it looked like it was set up right. It was in really beat up stock which I replaced. Fortunately, I didn't pay much for it at the time. So, if I got screwed, it wouldn't hurt that much. These rifles, I'm guessing, were set up in NM stocks with the screwed in lower band, but I don't know that for sure. They may have just been placed in regular stocks. Of course, some were apparently set up as service rifles for training. I've been trying to find out about this rifle for a long time.

Last edited by CMPUser3022; 07-22-2012 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Emmett Dunham Emmett Dunham is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,045
Default

http://yarchive.net/gun/rifle/garand_308.html


I found the artical on the Navy Garands and there were scribed with the dimensions of the bore on the barrel. The barrel was marked 7.62 on the barrel under the op rod and there is more in the artical.

Emmett
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:15 PM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMPUser3022 View Post
I have Garand with an SA 11686514 4 66 barrel. It was targeted with an upright T. It also has AA with the cross cannon acceptance at the end of the numbers. At least it looks like the cross cannon acceptance stamp. A large 7.62 is electropenciled in the bolt and, of course, the white spacer. It seems to be out of the date range you mentioned. What does that mean? Jim Adell doesn't have any documentation on this rifle.
These were suppose to be built by the Navy on new, not previously used, receivers at the time. Mine's on a SA 434XXXX receiver, which as it turns out, the Navy had issued to them from SA in the 42 to 43XXXXX range post war. I took a chance and bought this rifle a long time ago because it looked like it was set up right. It was in really beat up stock which I replaced. Fortunately, I didn't pay much for it at the time. So, if I got screwed, it wouldn't hurt that much. These rifles, I'm guessing, were set up in NM stocks with the screwed in lower band, but I don't know that for sure. They may have just been placed in regular stocks. Of course, some were apparently set up as service rifles for training. I've been trying to find out about this rifle for a long time.


If your barrel is marked with a Apr 4/66 it would be the first I heard of, so double check on your barrel stampings, mine is marked SA 11686514 3 66 MD61 P M with the DAS all single line, under that its stamped in larger type 7.62 MM, my barrel isn't stamped with H&R or AMF I installed my barrel.

Post some pictures if you can, If Cmdr. Jim Adell doesn't have your ser number in his data base then I strongly suspect that its a put together rifle using a Navy barrel, all of his data is directly from inventory/stocks from NWSC Crane, if the rifle was owned by the Navy it is or was in the inventory and there is a record of it, thats hard too argue with.

I'm sure that the Navy would have loved to build there rifles from the newest parts, but as more and more Sec of the Navy rifles turn up thats just not the case, I'm sure that the Team rifles used the best of what was on hand as long as the parts used were in serviceable condition and met spec, the NM tweeks were also done at the same time.

Last edited by Phil McGrath; 07-23-2012 at 12:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM.