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-   -   Accuracy of Springfield Armory's Socom 16 (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=88005)

Alaska Jack 10-17-2012 05:28 PM

Accuracy of Springfield Armory's Socom 16
 
Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of the Socom 16 at 100yds? 200 yds?

hmelect 10-18-2012 09:23 AM

I have a Springfield Socom 16 and it seems to have the accuracy of any of my other M1A's. It does offer a little more kick, so I have installed a rubber recoil butt plate to help with that.

rojkoh 10-20-2012 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaska Jack (Post 686606)
Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of the Socom 16 at 100yds? 200 yds?

Watched a Winchester 94 in 30-30 outshoot one a couple of weeks ago.

HughUno 10-20-2012 04:36 AM

about 1.75 to 2MOA with match or commercial soft point ammunition. Maybe an occasional specimen would hold 1.5MOA, but it's basically just an un-bedded (and very loud) M1A.

harleydrider82 10-20-2012 09:27 AM

Mine does 1-1.5, depending on what I shoot. My M1A is a sub 1 MOA gun all day.
Yes, the short one is quite loud indeed.
I took the bulky rail system off of mine, and put a GI handguard on. I love this rifle and use it for most everything now.
HTH, George

rojkoh 10-20-2012 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleydrider82 (Post 688336)
Mine does 1-1.5, depending on what I shoot. My M1A is a sub 1 MOA gun all day.
Yes, the short one is quite loud indeed.
I took the bulky rail system off of mine, and put a GI handguard on. I love this rifle and use it for most everything now.
HTH, George

Every M1A I've worked on (with one exception) was a sub minute gun. Mine got returned with a handload, since I prefer to test it to make sure it's right. The exception was a Devine where the owner wouldn't change the barrel from the USGI chrome lined tube. It did and still shoots 1 MOA. I sent that one home with my old Lapua Palma hand loads. I shot it before I moved.. still works fine and this guy is REALLY slow fire, he still has ammo I loaded for it 30 years ago. Nope, couldn't talk him out of the rifle, and I tried.

BUT, I simply don't see the point of loping 6" of the barrel of what was designed as a main battle rifle (MY OPINION). I've always tried to push the limits, once I was taught to shoot distance by one of Jim Land's era Snipers. I do wish my eyes were younger :rolleyes:

Best brush gun I've ever known was my old Remington Mohawk in .308. I carried it in a scabbard for SAR and I shot a lot of "practical" matches with it. With iron sights, deadly little rifle to 500 yards on the OLD IPSC item targets. I regret letting it go, but it went to work in law enforcement.

But seriously, guy came out with a whopteedoo "Super Match" and a Socom... my friend had his 94, I was working with some ammo I'm testing and he outshot the SOCOM with the 94, I outshot the "SUPER MATCH" with a standard grade SAI (with NM sights) - 200 yards. Funniest thing of all, 2 or 3 weeks before that, a friend of my friend had a new "F" class rifle out (very expensive) and he wasn't really getting good groups out of it (even with ammo I brought), when my friend offered to let him try an M39 with a PU scope, he outshot the "F" class rifle. Handload was the Sierra 175 MK in .311. Works good in a lot of Soviet style tubes (this one was Finish). The poor guy was not happy and hell, he's 74. M39 was unused (I stripped it later to clean the gunk out of the bolt) Finish Arsenal gun).

Quick note always understand that some ammo that works great at 100 yards may not perform so well as 200 or beyond. Even if the ammo holds true, remember that you double the number for every hundred yards. 2 MOA becomes 4, then 6 and so on. You're losing the ability to "reach out". ;)

UNderstand that since WWI the military did studies on how many rounds were fired to produce a kill. Now almost 90 years later they've gone back to the mentality "One shot one kill". Look at the pictures of the spec ops guys in the dune buggies in Iraq in 91. In many cases you'll see an M21 clamped to the roll bar. When the 14 matured into the M21 and M25, the 14 came into it's own. Even the USMC is using the 14 in the DMR soon to be something else which doesn't impress me.

Good idea about taking the silly stuff off the rifle, I don't use Lasers and I don't hang flashlights on weapons. For CQC, I prefer a 1911 type and I've used the "Harries" flashlight technique since Mike showed it to me about 35 years ago. It works. I showed it to the LASD SEB team in 80 or 81.

*IF* I want loud, I'll get a mouse gun! (ducking and running) (IT WAS A JOKE GUYS!!)

harleydrider82 10-22-2012 03:44 PM

We always used to joke that a handgun was what you used to fight your way to a real weapon :) I had to chuckle when the guy who owns Red Jacket firearms used that line on his TV program.
None other than Col Jeff Cooper recommended a shortened version of the M14 for use by the military way back in the early 80's. The Scout, and SOCOM versions of the M1A fulfill this, and are still accurate enough at distance. If you have to carry that rifle in the woods, having 6" less of barrel end to carch on wait-a-minute vines makes a big difference, with little effect on real accuracy, especially at typical combat engagement distances. FWIW, the M-4 has been proven accurate much farther than anyone initially thought. Unless there are real problems with a specific rifle, the individual shooting it is a more likely variable than the rifle itself. Having said that, I still use and love my full-length M1A.
I love the 1911 in .45, but my defense carbine is in fact an AR with short, light barrel, light, red dot and laser (in case I need to step outside). I just don't like using a handgun to point shoot, with a flashlight that often can wash out view of the front sight, without a laser. In addition, there are legal realities regarding shooting in self-defense. You are obviously a trained shooter, and are using a flashlight with good technique. Many still do not consider this important.
Just my two cents based on what I have done/seen.

hammonje 10-22-2012 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleydrider82 (Post 688336)
Mine does 1-1.5, depending on what I shoot. My M1A is a sub 1 MOA gun all day.
Yes, the short one is quite loud indeed.
I took the bulky rail system off of mine, and put a GI handguard on. I love this rifle and use it for most everything now.
HTH, George

A 1 MOA SOCOM. I want pics. Sub-MOA all day huh???? I love that claim. What is that a one round group?????

nf1e 10-22-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammonje (Post 689757)
A 1 MOA SOCOM. I want pics. Sub-MOA all day huh???? I love that claim. What is that a one round group?????

Harleyrider was saying that his Socom is 1 - 1.5 and his M1A is sub. No problem with that. Those results are about the same as I have found with mine. Just takes a little work with the accurizing and proper components and wha la a shooter. No secret. And certainly no reason for you to jump on someone again. One would think you would get a little tired of being an a hole. I know we are getting tired of you making an arse of yourself almost daily now.
Semper Fi
Art

rojkoh 10-22-2012 08:41 PM

[QUOTE=harleydrider82;689753]We always used to joke that a handgun was what you used to fight your way to a real weapon :) I had to chuckle when the guy who owns Red Jacket firearms used that line on his TV program.
None other than Col Jeff Cooper recommended a shortened version of the M14 for use by the military way back in the early 80's. The Scout, and SOCOM versions of the M1A fulfill this, and are still accurate enough at distance.

As much as I liked Jeff (The Colonel), I didn't have to agree with everything. Never cared for the Scout Rifle or the Bren Ten.


If you have to carry that rifle in the woods, having 6" less of barrel end to carch on wait-a-minute vines makes a big difference, with little effect on real accuracy, especially at typical combat engagement distances.

Depends on where you live. In SoCal that's never an issue, but even then I did have the Mohawk for specific reason (14 types are hard to carry in a scabbard). ABove and beyond, I had an old friend that was in the green beenies. He trained with the 14, but when deployed; he carried the XM117E2. He did like it, especially for his circumstances (close in work). Back east, I still carry the same old same old 22" 14 type (and I am going after a Devine next year).

For me, I started into CQC with one of Jeff's instructors. Finest mind for tactical/practical matches. He held the "Shop shoots" which were always indoors with various scenario's. We shot them with wheelguns loaded with wax bullets. Taught me a couple of things. Indoors, tactically a handgun is good. BUT, if I had to go any kind of serious weapon, I'd use an M3. I love them. High power rifles aren't good because of penetration issues and you don't want friendly fire issues. IN southeast asia, it's a different issue. When testing the SAWs in 1980, I recommended putting the Stoner system back into production, because it was the caliper they wanted, but it was mission adaptable. It had it's issues, but still better in performance then the 249 which was the best of the lot they had in for testing.


FWIW, the M-4 has been proven accurate much farther than anyone initially thought. Unless there are real problems with a specific rifle, the individual shooting it is a more likely variable than the rifle itself. Having said that, I still use and love my full-length M1A.

Do not like the cartridge. For files, I'm .30 cal! I know what the .30 can do as I know what the .45 can do. I prefer to stick with what I know works! :)

I love the 1911 in .45, but my defense carbine is in fact an AR with short, light barrel, light, red dot and laser (in case I need to step outside). I just don't like using a handgun to point shoot, with a flashlight that often can wash out view of the front sight, without a laser.

OK, I was taught to use a flashlight using the "Harries Flashlight technique". It works. We did a lot of night time "exercises". *IF* you have proper muscle memory (especially with the 1911's), you'd be surprised at how well you come into battery on the target, even without any decent lighting. They also did this at Gunsite.


In addition, there are legal realities regarding shooting in self-defense.

Ah we don't want to go there! :rolleyes:

Remember, I come from CA... tricky at best.

You are obviously a trained shooter, and are using a flashlight with good technique. Many still do not consider this important.

Well chuckle.. not so sure I want to go there either!

Just my two cents based on what I have done/seen.

Yes, but do you want change? :rolleyes:

LOLOL.

Have a good one.


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