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-   -   Questions on my "new to me" rifles (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=283205)

Miranthis 06-14-2021 11:25 PM

Questions on my "new to me" rifles
 
Still waiting on my RM1Service order. In the mean time I picked up two "new to me" M1 Grands. They each provide as many questions as answers: (bold are answers given by posters below)

https://i.imgur.com/F0ubK2Yl.jpg

1) (in front) SA 3,517,xxx (Feb 45). Barrel is 3 S A 2 45 (Feb 45) and gauges TE 0+ and MW 1 -. Stock is a DAS walnut with the Circle serif P. NW op rod. The metal is Grey, especially in comparison to the other one (below).

I am interested in some markings on the right side of the receiver. Above the drawing number of D 28291 35 Q is a row of stamped numbers B 4 0 C or maybe B 4 O C. Are those rebuild number? (Heat lot number)

2) (in rear) this one is the rougher of the two. Its a deeper black, likely recoated (reply posters say maybe not), and the receiver has some smoothed wear marks(Forging void, i am now told) on its top that you can notice in a side by side comparison. SA 3,060,xxx (July 1944?) Barrel is S-A-10-51 and matches the receiver. It gauges1+,1+ The row of stamping above the drawing number on the receiver on this one is B 31 B W. Again, are these rebuild numbers. one of the locking pins on the trigger guard was missing on a stamped TG with ground hook. I have a replacement that is

The wood is mismatched. Front HG is super light and striped, probably birch. The rear HG is some weird wood (cracked and repaired) the could be that Korean Chu replacement wood (just won't take a finish, even after being stripped with everything from mineral spirits, to purple power to acetone). The stock was filthy and nearly black. After a cleaning and reoiling the wood is nice GI wood and there is the remains of a circled serifed P and the faint crossed cannons, but any other stamping has been sanded off. I can almost make out some faint remains forward of the crossed cannons, but there is some gouging that has been sanded out there and it does not give a clue as to what could have been there.

Anyway, both shoot really well, at least better than the shooter :D . Wondering about the extra markings and what they mean. Have not seen a guide on line for that, yet.

Still wondering what my RM1Service will bring....

Jeff-in-KC

Chief 06-15-2021 04:01 AM

Those “extra” markings on the receiver are the heat lot codes. They denote the heat lot of the steel used. The arsenal bought steel in lots and it was found necessary to track these during manufacture.

Jakeroub 06-15-2021 05:48 AM

How about some pictures?

Miranthis 06-15-2021 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief (Post 2054557)
Those “extra” markings on the receiver are the heat lot codes. They denote the heat lot of the steel used. The arsenal bought steel in lots and it was found necessary to track these during manufacture.

Thanks. That explains a lot. Will get some pics up at some point. I use google drive and I can't seem to make in-line pics. I only get links to appear and that works, but its annoying. still getting up to speed on the picture posting. This software looks a lot like prior versions of AR15.com and Toyotanation message boards that I have used a lot, but what I do there does not work here. Will get it figured out.

Jeff-in-KC

Miranthis 06-16-2021 11:09 PM

Trying to share the album of the Garands below. Comments on the color differences? Assume the darker one has been refinished as you can see some metal damage on the top of the receiver that has been smoothed. There is the faintest remains of the small Ord wheel...there really is. :D

Jeff-in-KC

https://i.imgur.com/F0ubK2Yl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uQpkKgzl.jpg Can you see the very faint Ord Wheel? the left half of it is visible, but faint.
https://i.imgur.com/sttaPXUl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RgRbGrfl.jpgAfter cleaning and stripping
https://i.imgur.com/zzBksyzl.jpgAfter new BLO...most of the circle Serif P is there.
https://i.imgur.com/8Y5ixJel.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/C9joLYol.jpg NM Op Rod and HRA bolt on the 1945
https://i.imgur.com/niHYRVVl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AA8aqpJl.jpg This is he barrel on the Feb 45 light grey receiver.
https://i.imgur.com/E7Bk3Nyl.jpg see the metal damage that has been smoothed? Assume this has been refinished.

https://i.imgur.com/GU2XnkRl.jpg

Miranthis 06-17-2021 06:09 PM

https://i.imgur.com/BUnsL6jl.jpg The July 1944 SA
https://i.imgur.com/Is0MyTel.jpg Its Barrel
https://i.imgur.com/GfKinqul.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l0p2YROl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oQjVyACl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a2cy7YBl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IihDKFhl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/K0JcyCXl.jpg The Feb 45 and its NM Op Rod - why is this light grey and not dark like the Op Rod? is it a refinish? No refiniah stamps that I can see.
https://i.imgur.com/qVW7B81l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7Jol63Zl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/reLhd8vl.jpg

Danny 06-18-2021 06:06 PM

You asked about this:
smoothed? Assume this has been refinished.

That is not a sign of refinish. That is an original feature on the receiver, though the parkerizing may or may not be the one original to the receiver. In my quick look over of the images, I could not tell if that was the original parkerizing; not enough images. What you are seeing is a forging void. Not enough metal was present there to have been machined. The forged blank was below the level of the machining that was being done there. The rough surface is what the receiver blank might have looked like right out of the dies, before machining. Before reading in your posting, I was going to say that this must be a SA receiver even though there were not many images with tell tale signs for me to know for sure. I based my decision on the surface texture you pointed out. Nearly every H&R receiver ever produced is similarly flawed in that area, but someone at H&R or one of their subcontractors whooped the daylights out of that area with abrasive tools :(

Miranthis 06-18-2021 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny (Post 2055801)
You asked about this:
smoothed? Assume this has been refinished.

That is not a sign of refinish. That is an original feature on the receiver, though the parkerizing may or may not be the one original to the receiver. In my quick look over of the images, I could not tell if that was the original parkerizing; not enough images.

What images or angels would make that analysis easier? I can post whatever you need.

Quote:

What you are seeing is a forging void. Not enough metal was present there to have been machined. The forged blank was below the level of the machining that was being done there. The rough surface is what the receiver blank might have looked like right out of the dies, before machining. Before reading in your posting, I was going to say that this must be a SA receiver even though there were not many images with tell tale signs for me to know for sure. [SNIP]
Both are SA receivers. I did not figure out the inline photo trick until after that first post with the written details.... I have not been able to find a good pictorial reference on line for a side by side comparison of the various 'Shades" of finishes. My two are markedly different in color and depth of the finish, but the barrels and receivers match each other and there are no obvious rebuild marks, so I have no intelligent idea of what I am looking at.

Thanks for the heads up on the forging void. I just assumed that it was metal damage from rough handling, etc.

Jeff-in-KC

Danny 06-18-2021 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miranthis (Post 2055841)
What images or angels would make that analysis easier? I can post whatever you need.



Both are SA receivers. I did not figure out the inline photo trick until after that first post with the written details.... I have not been able to find a good pictorial reference on line for a side by side comparison of the various 'Shades" of finishes. My two are markedly different in color and depth of the finish, but the barrels and receivers match each other and there are no obvious rebuild marks, so I have no intelligent idea of what I am looking at.

Thanks for the heads up on the forging void. I just assumed that it was metal damage from rough handling, etc.

Jeff-in-KC

Welllll,
I still have not figured out the inline photo trick, so you are doing well. A picture of the receiver with the chamber end of the barrel would help, unless I missed if you said they are "in-the-white" or Parkerized. Pictures of the rear tang of the receiver with the roll stampings might help, but the images would have to be really sharp and in focus. If you feel so inclined, you can edit out some of the last numbers of the serial number. I suspect from what I see that they are probably refinished. A refinish is not a bad thing if nicely done. They look like nice solid rifles from my quick looks at the images. Be happy. I have seen some really rough ones at the North Store.

Miranthis 06-19-2021 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny (Post 2055855)
Welllll,
[snip] A picture of the receiver with the chamber end of the barrel would help, unless I missed if you said they are "in-the-white" or Parkerized. Pictures of the rear tang of the receiver with the roll stampings might help, but the images would have to be really sharp and in focus. If you feel so inclined, you can edit out some of the last numbers of the serial number. [snip]

Here:
https://i.imgur.com/QqpiFyih.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Zn4YsAgh.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/evmrR7ah.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lQojJ9Zh.jpg?1


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