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-   -   Legal scope for Colt HBAR (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=274205)

DJEinConcord 01-01-2021 03:16 PM

Legal scope for Colt HBAR
 
Reading the rules and forum searches on service rifle legal scopes is not helping find a practical way to help me. I have a very early Colt AR HBAR I do not want to modify other than adding a sling and a service rifle/high power legal scope.

I've read they are a few ounces over limit, and others swapped parts to make weight. Seems odd as I thought Colt made these civilian versions of what they made for the USMC. Is that true?

Also, are there separate iron sights classifications, or are they in the same classification as scoped rifles in high power, and military matches? I don't mind iron sights if I'm not competing with scopes.

This is my first foray into the dark side of plastic black rifles. I still believe it ain't real unless its wood steal, and the M1 is America's rifle, in America's caliber.

That said, whats legal and practical to get my HBAR scoped?

Gewehr43 01-01-2021 04:09 PM

Others will chime in....... but......FWIW:

You maybe confusing or combining the rules to Service Rifle and the CMP Games Military Matches.
The former doesn't have a weight limit, the latter does.

The HBAR version is just that- a Heavy Barrel version- so it isn't the same as the USMC (USGI) A2 barrel. Yours is heavy thru out whereas the A2 is tapered for some length under the handguards.

IDK about the Games matches but under SR rules: Iron and Scopes shoot together.

If you are happier shooting an M1, why switch?

If you would clarify if you want to shoot the Games matches or Service Rifle, then you might get better advice.

PS..... also you may not be allowed to shoot the HBAR (A2) by simply mounting a scope on it..... IIRC there is a height limit there, so you cant simply bolt on a scope atop the Carry Handle.

Louisxllx 01-01-2021 04:14 PM

I don't think there is a way to mount a scope on a fixed handle (M16A2) AR and meet the not higher than 3.5 inches above the center line of the bore to the center line of the scope. This is for CMP Service Rifle rules. I don't know about Modern Military.

A Colt HBAR has a heavier barrel than the M16A2 the Marines used. The A2 barrel is thinner under the handguards than the HBAR.

DJEinConcord 01-01-2021 04:42 PM

Thanks for the feedback. The '86H BAR is like new for an excellent price. I'd hoped to use it for CMP and at Camps Perry and Atterbury. So much for that plan. Even an ACOG is to high?

Quarterbore 01-01-2021 04:56 PM

The easiest will be to buy a second upper. Just there are two issues, weight and your Colt lower pivot pin size. Your lower uses a large pivot pin. Colt made large pivot A3 flattop uppers for about a year but they have been rare to impossible to find for over 20-years.

Armalite and Daniel Defense filled the need for a few years but even those are very had to find anymore. Still, they do show up for sale and Iíve bought two of them over the past 25-years of watching.

https://www.bangersusa.com/product-d...ver-a3-315-pin

If you canít get a big hole upper, then there are adapter pins with bushings that will allow you to use a mil spec upper with your lower.

https://www.eabco.net/Colt-AR15M16-R...n_p_15090.html

Now, I tried to make weight with a 20-inch A4 flattop with a 20-inch A2 Gov Profile barrel along with a Vortex (PRS?) optic and my gun is still too heavy. I shoot for fun anymore as I have health challenges so it doesnít matter much but if you need to make weight you may well need to move down to a 16-inch upper. There just isnít a lot of room in the rules for a 20-inch AR and frankly the guys shooting carbines are doing great as long as yii ok i are shooting 100 or 200 yard reduced matches.

For long courses, I dig out my old 12-pound DCM match rifle with the much heavier barrel but clearly thatís not making the weight limited classes.

DJEinConcord 01-01-2021 05:13 PM

Nothing good is ever easy. I was hoping I could make this work.

If the eabco adapter pins allow use of mils spec uppers, i think I might go that route.

Gewehr43 01-01-2021 06:58 PM

OP:

Are you interested in shooting Service Rifle or in the CMP Games?
If the former, you don't have to worry about weight.

DJEinConcord 01-01-2021 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gewehr43 (Post 2000197)
OP:

Are you interested in shooting Service Rifle or in the CMP Games?
If the former, you don't have to worry about weight.

Thanks 43.

I plan to shoot both. Four months ago fate placed me about 4 hours from Atterbury, 5 hours from Camp Perry and 10 hours from Talladega. Making my second trip there next week. There are no SR matches nearby, but I shot regularly in California. would really like one AR to shoot them all.

Gewehr43 01-01-2021 08:31 PM

Ok..... because the rules are different for each:

Service Rifle:
No weight, optics allowed but with height restriction (3.5") for the optic.

Games Matches

Modern Military: Weight at 7.5# and no optics.

Unlimited: No weight and optics allowed but same 3.5" height restrictions.

Measure the height of the optic you want to use on top of the carry handle.
I assume it'll be too high.......

So then either get another upper or switch out the A2 (Carry Handle) with a flat top.

(I'll be honest, you can shoot the HBAR ...... but besides the Carry handle issue, the barrel and lack of free float and finally the trigger will handicap you).


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