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-   -   Low number with Hatcher hole (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=278120)

cdj7097 03-05-2021 02:15 PM

Low number with Hatcher hole
 
Iím a little confused about something. Everything Iíve read says the Hatcher hole was drilled into low number receivers for the express purpose of making them shootable. As far as I can tell the only thing you couldnít do with with a low number was fire rifle grenades. Does anyone have any data on the number of injuries incurred with a Hatcher hole modified rifle? If a low number receiver has a Hatcher hole can/should it be shot?

John Beard 03-05-2021 04:54 PM

Check your PM.

J.B.

ZvenoMan 03-05-2021 04:59 PM

Hmmm.
Not sure where you read that.
1. LN receivers are LN receivers. There is nothing that will remove them from the list of "should not be shot according to many references", and CMP/NRA will not allow them. Hatcher Hole, 3 holes, 14 holes in the receiver or not, they are LN receivers.
2. The Hatcher Hole was to allow gasses to escape easier should a case rupture.The "problem" with LN receivers is they are (possibly) brittle due to faulty heat treating. Somewhat related, but in no way a "solution".
3. Rifle grenades have nothing to do with Low Number 1903s.
4. No statistically significant studies have been conducted in 8+ decades on LN 1903s, so any data you do find will be old.

There is plenty of factual info on LN 1903s (I suggest not comments in a forum but documented sources) so you can read up on it and decide for yourself if you want to shoot or launch grenades from your LN 1903.
I won't tell you not to, but I suggest anyone telling you "it's OK to shoot" is not a friend.
Read and decide for yourself; the risk is on you, not some guy on the internet living in mom's basement :-)

JH

2761377 03-05-2021 05:09 PM

here's a report from mom's basement-

the receivers in question only failed when a cartridge case failed.

they did not just blow up randomly.

in around 5000 rounds of modern M2 equivalent I've never had a case failure.

FWIW

DukeIronHand 03-05-2021 05:37 PM

I did read somewhere that rifle grenades were not supposed to be shot (launched) out of an LN. Not sure if this was official or internet talk. Iíll have to find it again.
A specific reason was not mentioned but I always presumed a grenade launch generated a little more chamber pressure then regular use? Or perhaps launching an explosive device (pin pulled prior to launching) was the bad time for a failure - even a 1 in a 100,000 failure.

cdj7097 03-05-2021 05:43 PM

I read about the grenade issue when reading up on Marine Corps 03's.
I also read that the Corps didn't have an issue firing low number rifles.

ZvenoMan 03-05-2021 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdj7097 (Post 2022604)
I also read that the Corps didn't have an issue firing low number rifles.

I think a more accurate description is the USMC made a decision to keep them in service after evaluating the available data.
Risk management was very different during the great depression, WWII......

JH

DukeIronHand 03-05-2021 06:12 PM

Speaking of random reading...
Think I also read somewhere that the USMC tested LNís in their possession and if it passed they put a punch divot on the receiver in front of the serial number?
Whew. I have forgotten way more then I currently know.
Wheres JB when you need him? :)

cdj7097 03-05-2021 06:52 PM

Well we know they did the hardness test on low and high receivers, thanks John, but I guess itís all for naught if you donít have a large hole bolt to use as planned. Interesting considering the way armorers clean weapons in mass and didnít care which bolt went with what receiver.

John Beard 03-05-2021 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Speaking of random reading...
Think I also read somewhere that the USMC tested LNís in their possession and if it passed they put a punch divot on the receiver in front of the serial number?
Whew. I have forgotten way more then I currently know.
Wheres JB when you need him?


I try to stay out of the low number controversy.


The USMC did indeed test the hardness on many of their M1903 receivers. And those that passed (i.e., not brittle), were given a punch mark in front of the serial number. Very few low numbers passed. The low number receivers that failed were placed in Ordnance Stores. When the U.S. entered WWII, the failed low number receivers were pulled from Ordnance Stores, assembled to rifles, and issued with instructions not to fire rifle grenades with them.


And I have a document signed by the U.S. Army Chief of Ordnance in 1940 abolishing the scrappage of low number receivers on rifles turned in for overhaul. As a friend liked to say, go figure.



J.B.


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