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-   -   2019 modern military (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=239559)

Herzo 01-17-2019 03:35 PM

I do not recall any inquiries as to the MM rules at Butner or Perry either. At a minimum they could have published a handout.

jsudduth 01-17-2019 05:51 PM

It can be done. I have a 20 Windham Weaponry upper with pencil barrel, cmmg lower and magpul moe collapsible stock. Weighs in at 7 pounds 5.6 ounces.
Jim

Talyn1 01-17-2019 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsudduth (Post 1793989)
It can be done. I have a 20 Windham Weaponry upper with pencil barrel, cmmg lower and magpul moe collapsible stock. Weighs in at 7 pounds 5.6 ounces.
Jim

Yes you can easily build an AR to meet the 7.5 lb. spec..

But the point is why is CMP excluding the basic, plain-Jane A2 configuration rifle, that has been on the DCM/CMP firing line for decades, by using an arbitrary weight threshold that is within a few oz. of the commercial version of an issue rifle.

There's nothing unlimited about an A2 other than extra few oz. of weight because the govt-profile A2 barrel.

jsudduth 01-17-2019 08:39 PM

From the 2014 Games Rulebook.

5.2.3 U.S. Modern Sporting Rifles, Class A
Category A Modern Sporting Rifles must comply with these additional
requirements:
 Rifles based on the M-16 or AR design and manufactured by a USA
manufacturer must be used.
 Weight may not exceed 7.75 lbs.
 No special accurizing is permitted except that fixed sling swivels
may be attached to the forward end of the handguard.
 The rifle must be chambered for the 5.56x45 mm or .223 Remington
cartridge.

Would that extra 4 oz allowed in 2014 be a better weight limit?

Jim

ceresco 01-17-2019 09:09 PM

I think so. Could be the "7.5" was just a mistake....... Good Shooting. ...

Talyn1 01-17-2019 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsudduth (Post 1794056)
From the 2014 Games Rulebook.

5.2.3 U.S. Modern Sporting Rifles, Class A
Category A Modern Sporting Rifles must comply with these additional
requirements:
 Rifles based on the M-16 or AR design and manufactured by a USA
manufacturer must be used.
 Weight may not exceed 7.75 lbs.
 No special accurizing is permitted except that fixed sling swivels
may be attached to the forward end of the handguard.
 The rifle must be chambered for the 5.56x45 mm or .223 Remington
cartridge.

Would that extra 4 oz allowed in 2014 be a better weight limit?

Jim

Good catch! And yes it would.

Since CMP initiated the MMR category in 2013 does anyone have the 2013 Games Rule book to see if, in fact, the 7.5 lb. threshold is a typo on CMPs part since they claim it's the original 2013 weight rule?

I've been searching for the 2013 Rules on line and can find rules before and after but not the 2013.

Using the 2014 Weight rule would be a simple fix.

jsudduth 01-17-2019 09:57 PM

I have 2013 as well.

4.2.2 Modern Military Rifle
Semi-automatic military-type rifles of U. S. or foreign manufacture that fulfill
these requirements may be fired if a Modern Military Rifle event or category is
included in the match program:
• Must be semi-automatic military or military-type rifles.
• The weight and exterior configuration of these rifles must be the
same as that of the original military rifle.
• Modern sporting rifles manufactured by U. S. manufacturers may be
used in this category providing the rifle does not exceed 8.0 pounds
in weight.
• Trigger pulls may not be less than 3.5 pounds.
• Magazines with a capacity of more than 30 rounds may not be used.
The magazine may not be used to support the rifle in a firing position
by resting on the ground or arm.
• Rifles must generally be standard production or as-issued rifles with
no special accurizing.
• Sights must be military-type sights. Optical sights are permitted only
if the match program specifically permits optical sights.

It seems that the US modern military rifle definition has been a moving target since its inception.

Jim

Talyn1 01-17-2019 10:31 PM

OK. I could not find the 2013 Rules. BUT in looking at the 214 Rule book it says on page i...

2014 Rules Changes. Any substantive changes from rules in the 1st Edition of the CMP Competition Rules for CMP Games Rifle and Pistol Matches or from the 9th Edition of the CMP Rimfire Sporter Rules that are now included in this 2nd Edition of the CMP Competition Rules for CMP Games Rifle and Pistol Matches are underlined so they can be readily identified.Under 5.0 Special Military Rifle Match Rules, Rule 5.0 defines specific rules and procedures that apply to all CMP Special Military Rifle and Pistol events.

The 2014 rules for MMR show underlined changes from 2013 to 2014 as follows.

5.2.2 General Rules for Modern Military Rifles

Semi-automatic military rifles of U. S. or foreign manufacture or commercial rifles of the same type and caliber or commercial variations of military-type rifles may be fired. There are two categories of Modern Military Rifles. The match program must specify whether a Modern Military Rifle event is for Class A and/or Class B rifles or for Classes A and B rifles combined. All Modern Military Rifles must comply with the following general requirements:

The exterior configuration of the rifle must be the similar to that of the original military or military-type rifle.

The trigger pull may not be less than 4.5 lbs. (change from 2013 - increase of trigger pull by 1 b.)

Magazines may have a capacity of no more than 30 rounds and may not be used to support the rifle in a firing position where the magazine rests on the ground or arm.

Rifles must be standard production or as-issued rifles with no special accurizing or match conditioning.

Sights must be military-type, non-optical sights; back-up (BUS) sights may be used; adjustable apertures, interchangeable inserts or lens inserts of any type are prohibited.

Butt-stocks may be fixed or telescoping/collapsing, however, if the rifle has a telescoping/collapsing butt-stock, it must be fixed so that its length of pull is not changed during an entire course of fire.

5.2.3 U.S. Modern Sporting Rifles, Class A

Category A Modern Sporting Rifles must comply with these additional requirements:

Rifles based on the M-16 or AR design and manufactured by a USA manufacturer must be used.

Weight may not exceed 7.75 lbs. (Change from 2013 - minus 0.25 lbs.)

No special accurizing is permitted except that fixed sling swivels may be attached to the forward end of the handguard.

The rifle must be chambered for the 5.56x45 mm or .223 Remington cartridge.

5.2.4 Modern Military Rifles, Class B

Category B Modern Military Rifles must comply with these additional equirements:

Modern Military Rifles manufactured in the U. S. or another country may be used.

The rifle may be chambered for any cartridge not exceeding caliber 8 mm.

Rifle weights may not exceed the weights specified in the chart.

Class B Modern Military Rifle Weight Limits

AK, AK-47 Stamped Receiver 7.0 lbs.

HK-91 11.0 lbs.

AK, AK-47 Milled Receiver 9.5 lbs.

HK-93 8.5 lbs.

SKS 8.5 lbs.

M-14, M1A 9.3 lbs.

FN-FAL 9.75 lbs.

FN-49 9.5 lbs.

SVT 8.75 lbs.

The CMP Competition staff may establish appropriate weight limits for other as-issued or production-type Modern Military Rifles upon request and the presentation of documentation regarding the rifle.

All that being said when CMP states that they're going back to the 2013 weight limit of 7.5 lbs, that's not true since it was 7.75 lbs. since there was NO change in the 2014 Rules from 2013.

Plus they dropped the M14/M1A weight down 0.3 lbs. from, again supposedly to go back to the 2014/2013 weight limit which was really 9.3 lbs.

IMO CMP either has a typo issue in this 2019 section or they forgot what was going on in 2013/2014.

jsudduth has found the evidence needed to ask CMP what they're thinking by stating they're going back to the 2013 regs when they're not.

Personally I like the 2013/2014 rules so CMP should do a double check on what they're saying to correct this 2019 mess.

Thanks to jsudduth for the 2013 info.

Mountain 01-18-2019 11:35 AM

Nice work forum members! Some great rules research here. What a mess!

I sincerely hope that CMP doesn't dig in their heels and go with the MM rules as they are now.

Talyn1 01-18-2019 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain (Post 1794159)
Nice work forum members! Some great rules research here. What a mess!

I sincerely hope that CMP doesn't dig in their heels and go with the MM rules as they are now.

Looks like they are.

http://http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=239779


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