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-   -   2019 modern military (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=239559)

GarandThumb21 01-21-2019 08:13 PM

Nice! If I had a Windham A2 upper with the government profile barrel, it sounds like I would've been able to make weight, as my lower is set up pretty similarly to yours. When I purchased my upper, Windham only had the A4 upper in stock, so I purchased one with the carry handle.

I'll double check my rifle's weight on a scale that's a bit more precise than a bathroom scale when I can, but I think I'm going to be a few ounces over.

We'll see if CMP modifies the rule this year to allow for a civilian A2 or A4 that weighs what the corresponding military rifle weighs. If not, it's Unlimited for me, unless CMP changes the rule again in 2020.:)

Hopefully you enjoy the Windham barrel. I've had good luck with it so far.

Talyn1 01-21-2019 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarandThumb21 (Post 1795378)
Nice! If I had a Windham A2 upper with the government profile barrel, it sounds like I would've been able to make weight, as my lower is set up pretty similarly to yours. When I purchased my upper, Windham only had the A4 upper in stock, so I purchased one with the carry handle.

I'll double check my rifle's weight on a scale that's a bit more precise than a bathroom scale when I can, but I think I'm going to be a few ounces over.

We'll see if CMP modifies the rule this year to allow for a civilian A2 or A4 that weighs what the corresponding military rifle weighs. If not, it's Unlimited for me, unless CMP changes the rule again in 2020.:)

Hopefully you enjoy the Windham barrel. I've had good luck with it so far.

I don't know how much heavier a bare A4 upper w/detachable carry handle weighs, maybe someone will chime in with a weight.

But if CMP would just show some flexibility, like going to the 2014 7.75 lbs. weight threshold I would think that 4 more oz. would allow an A4 to meet weight.

While the 2016-2018 NRA Rules are almost identical to CMP verbiage in describing the features a rifle must have in both of their categories, the NRA doesn't specify an arbitrary weight.

Note: What CMP calls a "Service Rifle" is what the NRA calls a "Match" rifle, both being refined rifles vs. a standard issue type. And a CMP standard MMR is a NRA "Service Rifle".

It would be great if both entities would standardize their class titles. IMO the NRA titles are more suited to how the classes are configured.

At least now I can shoot both Classes with this new A2 build for "A" and my Service Rifle (aka NRA Match rifle) for that Class, which I may do both for the fun of it.


BTW - The Windham 20" govt-profile barrel comes with M4 feed ramp cuts.

Mountain 01-22-2019 10:00 AM

My now 'illegal' scoped MM upper has a 20" gov profile Criterion barrel. I don't have an upper with an integral carry handle, so I'll have to figure out a way to make it all work with the extra weight of the detachable carry handle. Yeah, those steel bolts & knobs are heavy- I'll have to replace at least the knobs with some smaller nuts and perhaps the bolts too.

What about butt stocks? CMP allows more or less anything that doesn't have an adjustable cheek height or adjustable butt plate, correct?

I've seen many different variations of non-cheek/butt plate adjustable stocks on the line for MM. That's an area I can save a lot of weight if I move away from the A2 butt stock and use my lightweight one. Actually I prefer the A2 stock but will use an alternate lighter stock if I must. I should have everything I need in parts except a free float hand guard that doesn't weigh a ton. Rules allow it, so I'm going to go there...

mac1911 01-22-2019 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceresco (Post 1791771)
The new class is going to be a basic iron sight rifle or carbine. A quick look has M16 weight at 7.5# and the M4 carbine considerably lighter...... Good Shooting. ..

Which M16 variant
Is this also M16 what USGI was issued and when? vs commercial ones available to joe public.
It’s a mess really and when “mondern military” is based on the original variant issued 50 plus years ago, well its time for a class separation
A1 , A2 , M4 , A3 ?

ceresco 01-22-2019 10:30 AM

A1....does it matter?? Their rule is going to apply to all the ARs. Good Shooting. ....

Mountain 01-22-2019 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceresco (Post 1795517)
A1....does it matter?? Their rule is going to apply to all the ARs. Good Shooting. ....

Yes, it matters. It would define the difference between use of commonly available commercial variants or forcing the majority of competitors to either buy an M4 Carbine type or buy and install lighter components to make the typical commercially available A2 weight compliant.

Who wants to ditch their gov profile A2 barrel and install a pencil barrel because of an arbitrary rules change? Who wants to have to buy a new A1 slick side upper to cut weight? Those of us with aging eyes who went to scopes when they were deemed legal could simply use a detachable carry handle/sight assembly but that adds significant weight.

Seems that the minority of folks who have either M4 carbines or A1 style uppers are perfectly happy with the rules changes and some of them are probably the folks who initiated the complaints that brought us these difficult rules. Maybe CMP should just make it a M4 carbine class only and be done with it.

Talyn1 01-22-2019 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain (Post 1795506)
My now 'illegal' scoped MM upper has a 20" gov profile Criterion barrel. I don't have an upper with an integral carry handle, so I'll have to figure out a way to make it all work with the extra weight of the detachable carry handle. Yeah, those steel bolts & knobs are heavy- I'll have to replace at least the knobs with some smaller nuts and perhaps the bolts too.

What about butt stocks? CMP allows more or less anything that doesn't have an adjustable cheek height or adjustable butt plate, correct?

I've seen many different variations of non-cheek/butt plate adjustable stocks on the line for MM. That's an area I can save a lot of weight if I move away from the A2 butt stock and use my lightweight one. Actually I prefer the A2 stock but will use an alternate lighter stock if I must. I should have everything I need in parts except a free float hand guard that doesn't weigh a ton. Rules allow it, so I'm going to go there...

Before you try to save weight with the A4 handle steel attachment parts try a few things if you have the $$.

One gent previously posted that a carbine buffer assembly (stock, buffer tune, buffer & spring) can save 8 oz. Also, if you have some extra $$ you could try a light weight bolt carrier. You could save 4 oz. there over standard carrier. Also, WOA sells a A2 handguard w/o the inner heat shields.

Lastly, if you have the $ you could try some titanium and/or magnesium parts from V Seven. They have a carrier that weighs only 7.9 oz. As well as a variety of parts. But all BIG $$.

Talyn1 01-22-2019 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain (Post 1795525)
Maybe CMP should just make it a M4 carbine class only and be done with it.

I agree with this. Have a standard rifle class and a M4 class.

CMP says they want to be inclusive. Why freeze out the A4 when it's an issue rifle.

ceresco 01-22-2019 11:33 AM

It doesn't matter because the new weight is set at 7.5 lbs for all the ARs. How they picked that number doesn't matter unless you want to argue with them. Build a legal AR and go to the match. Good Shooting. ....

Mountain 01-22-2019 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceresco (Post 1795540)
It doesn't matter because the new weight is set at 7.5 lbs for all the ARs. How they picked that number doesn't matter unless you want to argue with them. Build a legal AR and go to the match. Good Shooting. ....

OK, that I get and I agree. With you, not CMP's new rules. :D


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