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-   -   Mann Device Sled (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=122445)

Logdog 11-14-2013 03:47 PM

Mann Device Sled
 
Does anyone have a picture of the fixture a Mann Device rides in. I have a very heavy base with two fixtures for securing a tube. I bought it 10 years ago near Aberdeen Proving grounds from a gent who said it was a mann device base. I'll post pictures later

BubbaTheKid 11-14-2013 04:34 PM

That would be something to see. All I have discovered is the old timie pictures of the V channel sled and the two donuts that clamp to the barrel. Not an actual fxture that the Mann rifles CMP sold would get mounted into.

Blacksmith 11-19-2013 09:28 PM

If you go to the Springfield Armory web site they have a search page for the archives. Try searches for such terms as Mann, Mann rest, Machine rest, etc. they have some pictures. I have also seen photos in other old publications. Look for ones like Mann's book or books by Julian Hatcher and others.

Here is the Springfield search page:
http://ww3.rediscov.com/spring/spring.htm

Logdog 02-21-2014 08:34 AM

Mann device sled
 
Interesting pictures of Mann devices. The distance between the bosses should tell the tail. Would anyone be willing measue the distances between their barrel bosses? Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacksmith (Post 958167)
If you go to the Springfield Armory web site they have a search page for the archives. Try searches for such terms as Mann, Mann rest, Machine rest, etc. they have some pictures. I have also seen photos in other old publications. Look for ones like Mann's book or books by Julian Hatcher and others.

Here is the Springfield search page:
http://ww3.rediscov.com/spring/spring.htm


VMFn542bob 02-21-2014 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logdog (Post 1026673)
Interesting pictures of Mann devices. The distance between the bosses should tell the tail. Would anyone be willing measue the distances between their barrel bosses? Thanks

I don't know what you are referring to as "bosses".
If these are the two "donut" shaped bearings used to support the barrel in the early days of field testing with a "V" block, it would not apply to the MANN Accuracy rifles sold by the CMP. The CMP MANN rifles were supported by the collar at the breech, or the breech end of the barrel, and the barrel floated freely.

Logdog 02-24-2014 10:24 AM

Mann sled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VMFn542bob (Post 1027080)
I don't know what you are referring to as "bosses".
If these are the two "donut" shaped bearings used to support the barrel in the early days of field testing with a "V" block, it would not apply to the MANN Accuracy rifles sold by the CMP. The CMP MANN rifles were supported by the collar at the breech, or the breech end of the barrel, and the barrel floated freely.

There are two clamps for the lack of a better word where the barrels could be mounted, the sled slides in a large "V' block with spring to either side. I need a general measurement between the collars on a barrel or two to see if it matches up. It all weighes an easy 150 lbs. The pictures of the various bases are very similar, but no pictures are up close.

BubbaTheKid 02-26-2014 02:44 PM

Did someone slip me goofballs or are you guys talking about (2) separate mouting types? I've seen the V-Channel sled but not the Gibralter Mount and single clamp at the breech with free floating barrel which is what I want to see/know about.

Logdog 02-26-2014 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbaTheKid (Post 1030776)
Did someone slip me goofballs or are you guys talking about (2) separate mouting types? I've seen the V-Channel sled but not the Gibralter Mount and single clamp at the breech with free floating barrel which is what I want to see/know about.

There exists a number of mounting arrangements. Various pictures show the mounts. I'll try to post a good picture of the mount I have. The measurements of the distance between the collars will give a good idea of if the mount was used for the Mann devices

VMFn542bob 02-27-2014 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logdog (Post 1030802)
There exists a number of mounting arrangements. Various pictures show the mounts. I'll try to post a good picture of the mount I have. The measurements of the distance between the collars will give a good idea of if the mount was used for the Mann devices

Pictures would be great. I have never seen anything but pictures a "V" sled and donuts on the barrel.
I have two MANN rifles and the dimensions of the barrels can be found here:
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=6338

Scroll down to post #8, about the 3rd photo in the collage gives the dimensions. My view of the changes in barrel diameters is to interrupt resonance. I believe these were retained in a machine solely by the collar at the receiver end.

This thread also shows the only two photos I have seen of a "machine" used to do MANN testing. Both clearly show two donuts on the barrel.

VMFn542bob 02-27-2014 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logdog (Post 954724)
Does anyone have a picture of the fixture a Mann Device rides in. I have a very heavy base with two fixtures for securing a tube. I bought it 10 years ago near Aberdeen Proving grounds from a gent who said it was a mann device base. I'll post pictures later

I just did a Google search and found this post on gunboards.com
Might this be you also? Really need some photos.
-
10-25-2010, 06:02 PM #3
JMCJR
From my springfield 03 collecting days, I have a sled that is likely for a Mann device, weighs about 150 pounds and clamps an action to a sliding "sled" mounted on a base. Guy
I purchased it from lived about 30 miles from Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

NMC_EXP 02-27-2014 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logdog (Post 954724)
Does anyone have a picture of the fixture a Mann Device rides in. I have a very heavy base with two fixtures for securing a tube. I bought it 10 years ago near Aberdeen Proving grounds from a gent who said it was a mann device base. I'll post pictures later

Col Brophy's book "The Springfield 1903 Rifles" has a chapter called "Pressure, Velocity and Accuracy Devices". It contains several period photos of machine rests.

On page 223 in a section called "Accuracy Tests" it has a reproduction of a test procedure including the equipment to be used. It states:

Rest "Woodworth: Type -
Mann Type "V" Block**
Rest, Recoil, Accuracy, Cal.30 Ordnance Drawing 49-6-40B

**For cal. .22 cartridges


Further down the procedure says:

"If however the basic Frankford Arsenal rest be available, then only the "V" blocks indicated are need to satisfy the requirement."

Block "V", Recoil, Cal. .30 Assembly Ordnance Drawing D-45100


The way I read it there was a "Woodworth Rest", and a "Frankford Arsenal Rest".

The "V" block fitted the rests interchangably (?). There may have been (2) different "V" blocks: one for .30 cal and one for .22 cal.

You might want to check out the Brophy book and Hatcher's books as well for photos and information.

Also, I believe you can get copies of obsolete Ordnance Drawings from the govt, maybe the National Archives and records Administration?

Good luck

VMFn542bob 02-27-2014 11:18 PM

Thanks for posting that info on Col Brophy's book. A Google search of images brought up those pictures but as you say, the quality of the pictures is too dark to see much detail. Maybe the actual book would be better. Two of the pictures I found and posted several years ago are in that book but (I think) I found them in the Springfield Museum on line. If I can't find Brophy's book among my friends I may buy a copy. Hatcher's Book is already on the internet as a huge PDF. There is not very much in it on the MANN.
Semper Fi - VMF(N)542Bob

Update 2/29/2014, 1:33pm MST
I have borrowed a copy of Lt. Col. Brophy's book, 4th printing. Most of the photos on the section cited by NMC_EXP are devoted to pressure testing and cradled 1903's clamped to a sled. Some pictures do show MANN barrels in a fixture but most of the MANN barrels pictured are not associated with a holding fixture.
Logdog - If you can provide a photo of your sled I can tell you if it is shown in the book. There are many versions of the Mann rifles in the book that I have never seen before.

Logdog 03-02-2014 06:02 PM

Cannot post pictures
 
Site will not let me post, pics sent to Naval Aviator

kraigwy 03-06-2014 03:43 PM

NMC EXP

Thanks for posting about "Col Brophy's" book.

As soon as I read your post I went to Amazon and found it. I bought it for information on the Mann device and found it to be an excellent book on the Springfield. A great companion piece for my "The Book of the Springfield" by Cpt Edward Crossman.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, here is a picture of the cradle for the Mann in 45 ACP from Hatcher's "Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers"

It show how the device fits in the cradle.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy...n%20device.jpg

I screwed the pooch on getting a Springfield Mann, thinking I had time. But I did get a Remington 700 5.56 Mann from the CMP Auction Site.

Logdog 03-09-2014 09:27 AM

Mann dervice measurements
 
I measured the sled across the clamps and came up with aprox 1.7 to 2" depending on what are the bearing surfaces. This corresponds roughly with what Bob has posted for measurements. I one of the guys who thought the devices would be around forever, so don't have one to compare with.


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