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-   -   Given the option, what grade would you select? (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=274987)

AFChief 02-11-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike2019 (Post 2014266)
The "Service Grade" price seems expensive to me for a pieced together pistol but what do I know? What would you do if you received this pistol?

A) I would reread the Service Grade description provided by the CMP CLOSELY and see if your 1911 matches what they SPECIFICALLY stated it would be... not what you THOUGHT it would be... and not what others have received. Does it?

B) I would blame the Army and take it up with them. THEY are the one's that authorized (and required) the rebuilds, refinish, and use of mixed parts, new commercial parts, etc., not CMP. It was good enough for them...

Maybe there is a friendly SRNCO who will be happy to take that call.. let me know how that works out for you...:D

C) It is your firearm... do with it as you please.

skohler 02-11-2021 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike2019 (Post 2014266)
The "Service Grade" price seems expensive to me for a pieced together pistol but what do I know? What would you do if you received this pistol?

They are all pieced together pistols, just like the carbines when they were sold and the current Garands being sold. The description of each grade lays it out well. If you are disappointed whenever you look at it, sell it. You may be better off in a auction or store setting where you can actually look at what you are buying.

cranehunter 02-11-2021 09:21 AM

Or contact the CMP and return it. If you wanted a rougher finish, maybe a field or rack grade would have been a better choice. I asked for SG and received a rebuilt refinished pistol. I was going to be happy with whatever I got, as they are all USGI all of the way through. It's yours now, do what you want.

ZvenoMan 02-11-2021 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skohler (Post 2014285)
The description of each grade lays it out well.

You may be better off in a auction or store setting where you can actually look at what you are buying.

2 very useful facts!

The grades seem (to me; many seem to read them differently!) to be based on wear and condition. Interesting these haven't been pasted 4711 times, but as I read them, finish does not appear in any of the 3 grades, so there is no expectation possible regarding finish versus grade. I see "may contain commercial parts" in all 3 grades, so expecting a "correct" is simply setting up for failure.
To some the grades are a crap shoot, but if you read and expect what is written you are assured to get that.
I expected the complaints early in the release but it seems this has been beat to death. The patience of CMP and CMP1911 should not be taken lightly. I couldn't do it.
I was an investigator my 1st career. When attending many of the training regarding detecting deception, behavior analysis, and language analysis, one statement stood out to me, and seems to apply here:
"If the subject did not say it, you can't say it for him". This was regarding not reading into a statement (written or verbal). If he didn't deny it, don't read that into his words.
CMP didn't mention correct or finish, so don't read those into the descriptions.
JH

Below is a simple copy & paste from the CMP1911 website. FYI, that is a total of 105 words, or about 35 per description. Yet people seem to expect what would take many more words to describe. Rebuilt, finish, correct, matching, arsenal, factory, original; none of those are included below so expecting the presence or absence of any of them is on the reader, not the seller.

Service Grade $1050. Pistol may exhibit minor pitting and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition. Pistols may contain commercial parts.

Field Grade $950. Pistol may exhibit minor rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition. Pistols may contain commercial parts.

Rack Grade $850. Pistol will exhibit rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips may be incomplete and exhibit cracks. Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition but is functional. Pistols may contain commercial parts.

neomedic 02-11-2021 01:05 PM

I feel like the issue is more about hoping for a WWII era 1911 and not getting it. I don't think anyone is angry or feel like they were cheated about not receiving one (I could be wrong), but voicing disappointment since many others have gotten lucky and received such a pistol. But it is luck of the draw and one have to decide if spending $1050 is too much to roll the dice or not.

fly by night 02-11-2021 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZvenoMan (Post 2014343)
2 very useful facts!

The grades seem (to me; many seem to read them differently!) to be based on wear and condition. Interesting these haven't been pasted 4711 times, but as I read them, finish does not appear in any of the 3 grades, so there is no expectation possible regarding finish versus grade. I see "may contain commercial parts" in all 3 grades, so expecting a "correct" is simply setting up for failure.
To some the grades are a crap shoot, but if you read and expect what is written you are assured to get that.
I expected the complaints early in the release but it seems this has been beat to death. The patience of CMP and CMP1911 should not be taken lightly. I couldn't do it.
I was an investigator my 1st career. When attending many of the training regarding detecting deception, behavior analysis, and language analysis, one statement stood out to me, and seems to apply here:
"If the subject did not say it, you can't say it for him". This was regarding not reading into a statement (written or verbal). If he didn't deny it, don't read that into his words.
CMP didn't mention correct or finish, so don't read those into the descriptions.
JH

Below is a simple copy & paste from the CMP1911 website. FYI, that is a total of 105 words, or about 35 per description. Yet people seem to expect what would take many more words to describe. Rebuilt, finish, correct, matching, arsenal, factory, original; none of those are included below so expecting the presence or absence of any of them is on the reader, not the seller.

Service Grade $1050. Pistol may exhibit minor pitting and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition. Pistols may contain commercial parts.

Field Grade $950. Pistol may exhibit minor rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition. Pistols may contain commercial parts.

Rack Grade $850. Pistol will exhibit rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips may be incomplete and exhibit cracks. Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition but is functional. Pistols may contain commercial parts.

SG and FG descriptions are identical.
RG differs by saying those pistols may have rust, have incomplete and cracked grips. And are functional but not issuable. What are the standards for a pistol in the warehouse to be issuable?

ZvenoMan 02-11-2021 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fly by night (Post 2014397)
SG and FG descriptions are identical.
RG differs by saying those pistols may have rust, have incomplete and cracked grips. And are functional but not issuable. What are the standards for a pistol in the warehouse to be issuable?

Read carefully grasshopper, SG and FG are not identical.
I do not know the standards CMP uses to define "issueable".
I won't speculate (the theme of every one of my responses) but expect that one or more of several things may make an otherwise "functional" pistol to be un-issueable.
A review of what has been posted regarding the RG pistols may allow some more accurate "guessing".

JH

Fogtripper 02-11-2021 08:07 PM

I feel that part of the confusion/angst stems from 1911s being priced as collectibles, yet graded on condition. I would like to think the TZ slides would be accepted as just as valuable collector wise as a WWI or WWII contractor, but it seems the jury is out on that.

ZvenoMan 02-11-2021 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogtripper (Post 2014572)
I feel that part of the confusion/angst stems from 1911s being priced as collectibles, yet graded on condition.

Please explain?

Fogtripper 02-11-2021 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZvenoMan (Post 2014598)
Please explain?

What is unclear? They are desirable as collector items above and beyond a commercial 1911, like a rock island. They are priced by market value of that collectability, yet graded solely on condition. (except those pulled for auction)

A FG can be worth a lot more than a SG, based on less “commercial” parts like the TZ slides, yet may be more worn cosmetically. I have no doubt that many choose the higher grade of SG hoping for a more collectable pistol, but all that it insures is less wear of the current finish, be it a commercial slide, or a heavily sandblasted and heavily reparked sample like a few earlier SGs displayed.

So my comment speaks to the topic of the thread. Unless it is an auction pistol, collector value has little to no bearing on the grading system. For better or worse.


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