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-   -   Scope mounts for Finnish Lion .22 (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=276313)

Calfed 02-05-2021 11:05 AM

Scope mounts for Finnish Lion .22
 
I've started shooting in a weekly small bore matches. These are shot off a bench. I've been using various rifles, including a Remington 40X, several Winchester 52's and a Martini.

I've got two Finnish Lion target rifles-an M55 and an M65. I would like to shoot these in these rimfire matches, but have not found any way to mount a scope.

Anyone know any scope mounts for these rifles?


https://i.imgur.com/9ZPKaGY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NzF50YT.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/YnVJqLF.jpg?1

jmm 02-05-2021 11:09 PM

When I searched under Valmet M55 there are pictures of one with a scope for sale some time ago.
Looks like they just drilled and tapped blocks on top of the receiver flats.
https://joesalter.ca/products/finish...model-55-rifle

SUPERX-M1 02-06-2021 03:02 PM

My 1960 Walther KKM only had slots for Walther Receiver sight. It was then d&t for Unertl blocks. So, can't put on modern scope.


Could try using epoxy to secure bases to barrel. Heat gun or propane torch to later remove. How secure is epoxy? I do not know.


Or use long piece of blank Weaver or Picitinny rail and epoxy down. This would give a lot of area for epoxy to attach to.


If there are long tube target scope mounts, attach rail to one or two sets of holes on rec and bbl and stabilize the rear with epoxy, or silicone, or a set screw bearing against the top surface of the receiver.


And if you or anybody does this, kindly post some feedback on your results.

Calfed 02-25-2021 01:14 PM

Thanks, guys. I'm still contemplating what to do. I like the scope mounted on the receiver, because then I can use a receiver mounted scope, of which I have several.

On the other hand, if I drill the barrel for scope mounting blocks, I then am limited to the old school "long tube" scopes. I although, I could use an EGW mount that mounts using the rear block screws.

SUPERX-M1 02-26-2021 06:59 PM

I like the photos of the "lions".


Collectors do not like alterations and that affects prices. Includes d&t, modifying stock...

navyrifleman 02-28-2021 09:52 AM

It is hard to tell from your photos exactly what the receiver shape is on top and on the left side. You might have to have to take it to a gunsmith to see what existing scope mounts would best fit the shape and contours.

Looking at the linked photo of the rifle with a scope, there does not seem to be much room for positioning and adjusting a scope, using the mounts that it has. If you already have a scope that you like, with your rifle mounted in a cradle or box, try positioning the scope above the receiver and align it with your eye when your cheek is in position on the stock. This will tell you if scope mounts on top of the receiver are even feasible with the scope you want. Note that the one shown has an extended front mount to make scope placement possible.

If your rear sight attaches on the left side of the receiver, perhaps you might consider getting a scope mount which uses the same screw holes, and then consider a shorter scope like those used by AR-15 shooters.

navyrifleman 02-28-2021 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUPERX-M1 (Post 2012648)
My 1960 Walther KKM only had slots for Walther Receiver sight. It was then d&t for Unertl blocks. So, can't put on modern scope.
Could try using epoxy to secure bases to barrel. Heat gun or propane torch to later remove. How secure is epoxy? I do not know.
Or use long piece of blank Weaver or Picitinny rail and epoxy down. This would give a lot of area for epoxy to attach to.
If there are long tube target scope mounts, attach rail to one or two sets of holes on rec and bbl and stabilize the rear with epoxy, or silicone, or a set screw bearing against the top surface of the receiver.
And if you or anybody does this, kindly post some feedback on your results.

I am not an expert on the use of epoxy for attaching scope bases. However, I have reservations as to its feasibility, based on other projects that I have worked on.

Epoxy is great for repairing wood cracks, and for joining wood to wood. I have repaired badly damaged fore ends which later broke again - but in new places and NOT where the epoxy repairs were.

But I have not had much luck with metal to metal bonding with epoxy.

It may work for a while, but has a tendency to come undone under changes in temperature because metal expands and contracts, causing the glue to suddenly separate from the metal. Also, you will be getting gun oil on or near it, as well as cleaning solvents.

Soldering would maybe be an alternative to drilling and tapping. It is done to attach front sight bases, but it would tend to mess up a lot of the rifle to do a long strip of scope base.

Perhaps others have had more experience and more luck in this area than I have had.

SUPERX-M1 02-28-2021 06:19 PM

Space age adhesives and bonding
 
Possibly the type, brand of epoxy used would make a difference. As would surface prep.


How about a " space age" epoxy or fibreglas used for a marine or aeronautical purpose. One reads casual chatter about composites and bonding, also adhesives. The "good stuff" is probably out there. Products intended for industrial use.


The discontinued Vianni mount used the left side receiver sight holes and the rear most Unertl block holes.


There is a Vic Havlin side mount for the Mossberg M44 which uses factory drilled and tapped holes which some M44 had.




The Walther KKM has parallel grooves cut into the receiver top. The receiver sight slides onto these grooves and a side screw clamps the sight tight, so it works much like a clamp on 22 rimfire scope mount which also uses two grooves.


There are probably many forums that explore these problems and have answers. Rim Fire Forums, Benchrest,Target Rifle, Smallbore forums, .... and all permutations of Google Search.


So, if you have answers, tell us. Old threads inform for years. Google finds old threads.


Also, the OP mentions the use of Win 52,were they d&t by a user for a short scope?

Calfed 03-01-2021 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navyrifleman (Post 2020426)
It is hard to tell from your photos exactly what the receiver shape is on top and on the left side. You might have to have to take it to a gunsmith to see what existing scope mounts would best fit the shape and contours.

Looking at the linked photo of the rifle with a scope, there does not seem to be much room for positioning and adjusting a scope, using the mounts that it has. If you already have a scope that you like, with your rifle mounted in a cradle or box, try positioning the scope above the receiver and align it with your eye when your cheek is in position on the stock. This will tell you if scope mounts on top of the receiver are even feasible with the scope you want. Note that the one shown has an extended front mount to make scope placement possible.

If your rear sight attaches on the left side of the receiver, perhaps you might consider getting a scope mount which uses the same screw holes, and then consider a shorter scope like those used by AR-15 shooters.


Here are some better pictures of the receiver (same for both rifles)


https://i.imgur.com/qUvkVvu.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PfT9U2s.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zsSAN6A.jpg


The rear sight slides into a groove visible on the left side of the receiver and look like this...


https://i.imgur.com/7scI4AQ.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/Tgo3JGD.jpg?2

Calfed 03-01-2021 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUPERX-M1 (Post 2020613)
Possibly the type, brand of epoxy used would make a difference. As would surface prep.


How about a " space age" epoxy or fibreglas used for a marine or aeronautical purpose. One reads casual chatter about composites and bonding, also adhesives. The "good stuff" is probably out there. Products intended for industrial use.


The discontinued Vianni mount used the left side receiver sight holes and the rear most Unertl block holes.


There is a Vic Havlin side mount for the Mossberg M44 which uses factory drilled and tapped holes which some M44 had.




The Walther KKM has parallel grooves cut into the receiver top. The receiver sight slides onto these grooves and a side screw clamps the sight tight, so it works much like a clamp on 22 rimfire scope mount which also uses two grooves.


There are probably many forums that explore these problems and have answers. Rim Fire Forums, Benchrest,Target Rifle, Smallbore forums, .... and all permutations of Google Search.


So, if you have answers, tell us. Old threads inform for years. Google finds old threads.


Also, the OP mentions the use of Win 52,were they d&t by a user for a short scope?


I have several Vianni mounts for my Winchester 52D, H&R M12, Remington 513T, and Winchester 75. As you say, they tied into the rear scope mount block on the barrel and the rear sight holes on the receiver. Wish Ken had made them for the Finnish Lion, but he has retired.


I have a scope mounted on my Winchester 52B using an EGW scope rail that uses only the rear scope mount blocks on the barrel. It looks a little flimsy, but seems to hold well enough to get good groupings.


https://i.imgur.com/TAYFOzq.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/0GydQRg.jpg


I'm thinking of having the barrel of my Lions drilled for the scope blocks so I can use that mount.


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