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-   -   Remington moving to Georgia (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=289506)

John Beard 11-16-2021 11:52 AM

I respectfully disagree. Quite the opposite. Rather than a decline in quality, I would expect to see an improvement in quality as new and improved equipment, processes, and procedures are put in place.

J.B.

Slamfire 11-16-2021 03:12 PM

There are always teething problems as a new force comes into place. Since most of the firearms Remington built were subcontracted out, the new guys are going to find which subcontractors are stinkers.

A guy who worked at the Huntsville Plant told me, they received 1911 slide forgings from S. Korea. And they were inspected in plant. Rejects went back to the S Korean vendor. Who then sent them right back with the next shipment. So Remington Huntsville learned to stamp a mark on the rejected receivers.

Very few of the parts were made in the Huntsville Plant, most were subcontracted out. I think the barrels were done there, and final finishing of slide forgings. Internal parts were subcontracted, I understand.

There were hardly any people in the plant, it is not like the old days. I was told by a person who got a plant visit, at the beginning of the production line there was maybe a person roaming around picking up things that fell off the conveyor belt system. Everything was highly automated, the CNC machines and production line pretty much did everything.

It was not until the end of the production line, there were "20" something's assembling guns from parts. These guys were standing only, no chairs, and they did not have files. They did no adjustments, just screwed things together.

Assembly lines are simplified to the hamburger joint level. You are shown your basic tasks of squirting mustard, applying mayonnaise, and that is all you need to know. The company does not want highly skilled or expensive assembly line employees, they want cheap labor that can be replaced quickly.

The guys who program the machines and keep them running are a different skill level, but they are not touch labor.

ZvenoMan 11-16-2021 03:33 PM

And to look at Slamfire's description form another view, 20 somethings should be able to assemble them without files and hammers, like the hamburger joint.
21st century production relying on CNG processing shouldn't require hand fitting.
A 1911 produced on such a production line should have closer tolerances than one produced 50 or 75 or 100 years ago. The end result is a better product (by no means to infer any older firearms are somehow inferior).
JH

Slamfire 11-16-2021 06:04 PM

QUOTE=ZvenoMan;2092681]And to look at Slamfire's description form another view, 20 somethings should be able to assemble them without files and hammers, like the hamburger joint.
21st century production relying on CNG processing shouldn't require hand fitting.


A 1911 produced on such a production line should have closer tolerances than one produced 50 or 75 or 100 years ago.[/QUOTE]


Yes, absolutely true, and I see in over the counter guns. I remember the late series 70's and the series 80 I own.

This rattles.


https://i.imgur.com/XbO76Om.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/mKj3bsE.jpg


This does not

https://i.imgur.com/8rCbIa2.jpg


Nor does this, even though it was $100 less and is a bargain basement product line by the manufacturer. And it also made of 4140 steels


https://i.imgur.com/WDiif60.jpg





Quote:

The end result is a better product (by no means to infer any older firearms are somehow inferior). JH



Then I will say it. The earliest 1911's are made from dead soft plain carbon steels. The WW2 issue 1911's are made from plain carbon steels, and per an article I saw, only the first two inches of the slide is heat treated. I think there had to be a surface hardening, but I could be wrong. Those GI pistols wore out. Modern pistols, when kept lubricated, the frame to slides don't wear. At least that is the experience of a number of Bullseye shooters I ask. Literally hundreds of thousands of rounds and the frames and slides don't crack or wear out. Barrels wear out, hammers and sears wear out, but the main structural elements last. And they don't need to be refitted.



This was made to a precision that would be unbelievable prior to 1990.


https://i.imgur.com/wfm4oQ1.jpg




and so was this.




https://i.imgur.com/nTBfeYd.jpg

BRMPCF50 11-16-2021 09:53 PM

There might not be much of “old” Remington left. The Remington assets, including name and trademarks, were auctioned off to a variety of other firms.

https://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/...n-Breakup2.jpg

The Apprentice 11-16-2021 11:41 PM

Did Ruger acquire Marlin Firearms from the Remington bankruptcy?

schutzen-jager 11-17-2021 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Apprentice (Post 2092847)
Did Ruger acquire Marlin Firearms from the Remington bankruptcy?

yes

jos51700 11-17-2021 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Beard (Post 2092611)
I respectfully disagree. Quite the opposite. Rather than a decline in quality, I would expect to see an improvement in quality as new and improved equipment, processes, and procedures are put in place.

J.B.

I do agree with you that updated machinery and modern manufacturing methods will generate more accurate parts, with better materials and lower reject rates, but respectfully disagree that it still takes time to train people, and you can't just shove people with no familiarity in an assembly room and expect them to catch or not make mistakes, no matter how much you train them. When you call a plumber, you hope for the old man, not the son.

Let's face facts: If all it takes is 'this is how you make the parts and this is how you put it together', Chinese products wouldn't be what they are.

Sure, the Chinese can make some decent stuff, but what typically happens to quality when an established manufacturing operation from the US is sent to China? Is the final product as consistent, and of the same quality? Corporate executives say it should be, but the reality.....

I'm not saying that Remington cannot be what it once was. I'm just saying I wouldn't buy a new Remington product for a couple years. There's a big difference between the Smith wheelgun that any one of us put together, versus the one assembled and tested by the guy that has done it for 40 years, and that's the guy that's just going to retire instead of relocate with the plant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamfire (Post 2092756)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZvenoMan (Post 2092681)
And to look at Slamfire's description form another view, 20 somethings should be able to assemble them without files and hammers, like the hamburger joint.
21st century production relying on CNG processing shouldn't require hand fitting.


A 1911 produced on such a production line should have closer tolerances than one produced 50 or 75 or 100 years ago.


Yes, absolutely true, and I see in over the counter guns. I remember the late series 70's and the series 80 I own.

This rattles.

This does not

Nor does this, even though it was $100 less and is a bargain basement product line by the manufacturer. And it also made of 4140 steels


Then I will say it. The earliest 1911's are made from dead soft plain carbon steels. The WW2 issue 1911's are made from plain carbon steels, and per an article I saw, only the first two inches of the slide is heat treated. I think there had to be a surface hardening, but I could be wrong. Those GI pistols wore out. Modern pistols, when kept lubricated, the frame to slides don't wear. At least that is the experience of a number of Bullseye shooters I ask. Literally hundreds of thousands of rounds and the frames and slides don't crack or wear out. Barrels wear out, hammers and sears wear out, but the main structural elements last. And they don't need to be refitted.



This was made to a precision that would be unbelievable prior to 1990.

Agreed 100%, but a large part of that is material science, and not necessarily any sort of manufacturing revolution.

BoulderJim 11-17-2021 08:46 AM

Remington fell victim to private equity ownership - a predatory business model which unfortunately has ruined a lot of legacy companies and livelihoods in this country. Buy the company, attach debt, strip it down and move on. Thus Remington's declining quality over the years. Unfortunately Remington as a legacy company no longer exists beyond the name.

HateCA 11-24-2021 11:05 PM

Well from the shotguns I’ve held and seen they have work to do. Poor wood finish. Poor wood to metal fit. Poor and cheep butt pad fit. Let’s hope their metal work and machining isn’t a reflection of what I’ve seen so far. If I pick it up and it looks like crap it doesn’t give me confidence in the rest of it.


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