CMP Forums

CMP Forums (http://forums.thecmp.org/index.php)
-   Smallbore (http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
-   -   H&r m12 (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=280360)

Calfed 04-15-2021 08:26 PM

H&R m12 trigger problem
 
I recently picked up an H&R M12. It was working fine and like an idiot, I decided to remove the bolt to look down the bore.


I put the bolt back in the rifle and now the rifle uncocks itself when ever I work the bolt.


Any ideas?

hebes405 04-15-2021 09:33 PM

thats odd. Its like the trigger is not resetting. It might be packed in grease. Fiddled with the bolt release. Maybe that will free it up. Might need to disassemble.

Calfed 04-15-2021 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hebes405 (Post 2036340)
thats odd. Its like the trigger is not resetting. It might be packed in grease. Fiddled with the bolt release. Maybe that will free it up. Might need to disassemble.


I just checked. The trigger does not reset. If I manually press the trigger forward, the bolt stays cocked, and the trigger works. But then I have to do that every time I work the bolt.

broomhandle 04-15-2021 11:39 PM

Hi Sir,

DO not even think about taking the bolt apart without reading how to do it!
It's a complex unit. You might ruin it for a minor problem.
This is a great place to find out how to do it correctly. Ask here or the How TO section of the board.
I had a issue with the extractors, a fellow replied & the minor problem was fixed in a flash. I did not see or feel the Dried grease in extractor slots. A good soaking in some solvent was the fix!

Good Luck.
broom

Calfed 04-16-2021 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broomhandle (Post 2036363)
Hi Sir,

DO not even think about taking the bolt apart without reading how to do it!
It's a complex unit. You might ruin it for a minor problem.
This is a great place to find out how to do it correctly. Ask here or the How TO section of the board.
I had a issue with the extractors, a fellow replied & the minor problem was fixed in a flash. I did not see or feel the Dried grease in extractor slots. A good soaking in some solvent was the fix!

Good Luck.
broom


I appreciate the tip. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I will approach fixing it with caution.

hebes405 04-16-2021 05:30 AM

By disassemble, I. Ment take the action out of the wood if it's packed with grease.
Let's recap what happened:
Rifle worked fine, you removed the bolt, you inserted the bolt back into the rifle, now the the rifle won't cock.

broomhandle 04-16-2021 06:20 AM

Hi hebes405,

I had the same issue when I first bought the rifle! The bolt spring & lever was gummed up! The bolt pulled out of the action after I thought I cleaned it correctly.
Again the guys here saved me from going down the wrong trail! As you are now.

Sadly most of the people that KNOW this type of rifle have passed.

Thanks again for helping us out!:GS:
broom

hebes405 04-16-2021 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broomhandle (Post 2036386)
Hi hebes405,

I had the same issue when I first bought the rifle! The bolt spring & lever was gummed up! The bolt pulled out of the action after I thought I cleaned it correctly.
Again the guys here saved me from going down the wrong trail! As you are now.

Sadly most of the people that KNOW this type of rifle have passed.

Thanks again for helping us out!:GS:
broom

When I bought my rifle, it had lots of sticky grease EVERYWHERE. Very nice rifles.

Calfed 04-16-2021 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hebes405 (Post 2036379)
By disassemble, I. Ment take the action out of the wood if it's packed with grease.
Let's recap what happened:
Rifle worked fine, you removed the bolt, you inserted the bolt back into the rifle, now the the rifle won't cock.


Yes, the rifle won't cock unless I manually push the trigger forward will cocking the rifle. The rifle appears to be clean and free of excess grease.

broomhandle 04-16-2021 03:13 PM

H iCalfed,

Just a wild guess here.
Is it possible when you took the bolt out you reliever the firing pin spring about a half turn?
Or turned it tighter than it's correct spot. I think there may be line up marks on the two parts of the bolt. I hope you can get some help, it's most likely a quick adjustment at most.
I'm told there are three other guys in my area that have the M12's.
I have the rifle for about three years, been trying to find them for three years.:cry:
Guys like hebes405 are my lifeline for help with older firearms.

Good Luck,
broom

nate 04-16-2021 07:58 PM

In case you don’t have the steps for removing and installing the bolt.
1. Lift up on the bolt handle
2. Put safety in fire position
3. Pull and hold the trigger with one hand, then push forward on the bolt release lever with the other hand
4. With the bolt release held all the way forward, release the trigger and slide the bolt out of the receiver.
To install.
1. With the safety in the fire position, pull and hold the trigger with one hand, then push and hold the bolt release forward. Release the trigger.
2. Make sure the bolt handle is in the normal open position and slide the bolt forward making sure the bolt body is aligned with the loading platform.
3. When the bolt has entered the loading port area, release the bolt release lever.
Don’t know if the sequence has anything to do with the problem you are having with the trigger but it may be possible. This is from the manual for the rifle.

Calfed 04-16-2021 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate (Post 2036649)
In case you donít have the steps for removing and installing the bolt.
1. Lift up on the bolt handle
2. Put safety in fire position
3. Pull and hold the trigger with one hand, then push forward on the bolt release lever with the other hand
4. With the bolt release held all the way forward, release the trigger and slide the bolt out of the receiver.
To install.
1. With the safety in the fire position, pull and hold the trigger with one hand, then push and hold the bolt release forward. Release the trigger.
2. Make sure the bolt handle is in the normal open position and slide the bolt forward making sure the bolt body is aligned with the loading platform.
3. When the bolt has entered the loading port area, release the bolt release lever.
Donít know if the sequence has anything to do with the problem you are having with the trigger but it may be possible. This is from the manual for the rifle.


I also have an H&R model 5200, which is the civilian version of the M12. I notice that I have to pull the trigger to replace the bolt in the receiver. With the M12, it slides in with only the bolt release lever being pushed forward.

Calfed 04-16-2021 09:34 PM

I took the barreled receiver out of the stock and took a few pictures. The trigger mechanism looks clean.

A prior owner bedded the action.

https://i.imgur.com/QB0DU22.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/kcBbmXv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VyRUtOK.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/loiQ8Yt.jpg?1

nate 04-16-2021 10:24 PM

The manual is available on rimfire central forum in free pdf download and it has a parts breakdown of the trigger. Whoever did the bedding on your rifle did a really neat looking job.

broomhandle 04-16-2021 11:09 PM

Hi Nate & hebes 405,

Honestly, just wide guess's on my part.
Does that wire spring look correct? Can it be rubbing on the bedding job?
Calfed does the trigger action work correctly out of the stock?

Since the stock was bedded, did you possibly bend the walls on the trigger unit a tad when the action was removed causing a bind?

When I was preparing one of my 03A3's DRILL rifles for shooting. I bought a NOS bolt it did not fit the receiver. The bolts on the other thee rifles just dropped in, without the barrel mounted. I assumed I knew were the problem was. I did screw up a costly part ONCE on another project!

I measured all the bolt dimensions I could. The new one was with in tolerance! I used black marker to discover the tight spot. No JOY!

I thought I knew three spots that might cause a problem, went to see the last old gunsmith in the area. "You may be right" with a smile he try's it looks at it.
He whips out a fine stone makes two pass's with the stone at the other end of the bolt & it drops right in! He smiles & said the first step to learning stuff it to admit you don't know! No charge! :GS:

Hope you sort it out?
broom -still willing to learn

navyrifleman 04-17-2021 07:56 AM

As others have suggested, your problem could be simply that the trigger mechanism has become gummed up. This happens often when gun oil dries and turns to something like shellac.

Try squirting some Ronsonol or Zippo lighter fluid into the trigger mechanism and work the parts to see if it loosens up. Let it dry and then re-oil. This worked well for an old Remington .22 that I have.

I keep a bottle of Ronsonol around all the time for use as a solvent. It works well to degrease a part prior to bluing, as well as cleaning old oil and grease off firearms. It also works great to remove glue and price tags.

Hobbs 04-19-2021 10:42 AM

Calfed
I think your problem is with sear engagement or trigger pull is slightly too lite. I have an extra copy of M12 manual that I will give you if you haven't solved your problem. I have had the same problem in the past.

Email me (PM never seems to do right) and and I'll mail you a manual which gives good instructions.

hobbsards@aol.com

Calfed 04-20-2021 01:19 PM

Thanks, guys. I swapped the bolt with my H&R 5200 (civilian version of the M12) and noted the same problem with the M12 and noted no problem with the M12 bolt in the 5200, so it does not appear to be the bolt.


I'll look at the trigger

hebes405 04-29-2021 08:17 PM

Have you solved your problem yet?

broomhandle 05-02-2021 02:25 PM

Hi Guys,

I for one have lots of interest in knowing the odd occurrence's & happing's on a M-12 WE need to know how to keep all of them running!

All of us are still wishing you a quick fix to the problem,
broom

Calfed 05-02-2021 04:56 PM

I've been in and out of town for the past few weeks.

I picked up a bottle of Ronsonol and will give the trigger a thorough going over when I'm back home. I will report the results.

broomhandle 05-02-2021 09:54 PM

Hi Sir,

Please keep us informed!

Good Luck,
broom

Calfed 07-09-2021 01:07 AM

I cleaned out the trigger and bolt as well as I could without disassembling anything. I also increased the sear engagement a little bit by turning the screw on the trigger. That seems to have fixed it.

I mounted a Weaver Grand Slam 6-20x40 on it.

https://i.imgur.com/kd5j8q9.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/XKJVyl9.jpg?1

I took it to the range today and got it on paper with some cheap ammo and then switched to Eley tennex. The wind vas varying from a left 45 degree cross wind to about a right 45 degree crosswind. Top line was my first 5. Made an adjustment and got a second line. Then made a very small adjustment and put three in the upper left quadrant of the orange dot. This rifle seems like it has some promise.

50 yards with Eley tennex
https://i.imgur.com/CpsajU9.jpg

hebes405 07-09-2021 06:00 AM

Glad you got it running again. Thanks for updating us.
Looks like your rifle shoots well. I've wanted to try some tenex in my rifle but couldn't find any.

jmm 07-09-2021 07:18 AM

Once you settle in behind the trigger, they are a lot of fun to shoot.
1 round at a time.
Make sure you update us if anything changes. :GS:

broomhandle 07-09-2021 09:06 AM

Hi Calfed,

Looks like your on your way to some serious target shooting!:GS:

Best wish's & ENJOY every day,
broom

MGMKS 07-09-2021 09:19 AM

I too have a CMP H&R M12. I have added a scope and bipod and have been to the range once with it. There were no issues and a lot of fun. Hoping this discussion gets me back out with it later this summer! Can't find pics now either. . . .

Calfed 07-15-2021 11:22 AM

Recently I glommed this Redfield Palma sight at an estate auction...

https://i.imgur.com/jgb4FSY.jpg?1

broomhandle 07-15-2021 03:30 PM

Hi Calfed,

WOW! it looks like it came out of the original box ! Hope you like it I was surprised on how well it worked & held 0:GS:
The sight on my Mossburg 44 always shifts a bit when I switch to a scope & back.

Enjoy it,
broomhandle

dave tengdin 07-16-2021 08:52 AM

Have you noticed the first few shots in a string are all over the place before it settles in? Mine needs about 3 shots before it can start shooting to the point of aim.

jmm 07-16-2021 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=Calfed;2062740]Recently I glommed this Redfield Palma sight at an estate auction...

I don't want to know what that cost.
It looks brand new.
Of course any estate that had that in it, probably had some other things we all would want. Anything you didn't bid on?

Calfed 07-16-2021 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmm (Post 2063014)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfed (Post 2062740)
Recently I glommed this Redfield Palma sight at an estate auction...

I don't want to know what that cost.
It looks brand new.
Of course any estate that had that in it, probably had some other things we all would want. Anything you didn't bid on?

The auction featured a lot of different items, including a couple of Unertl 20X scopes, a Weaver CT-24X scope, a Vortex 6-24 PST scope and several Redfield International and Olympic sights.

I bid on all those items, but only won the Palma sight.

broomhandle 09-03-2021 10:57 PM

Hello H&R-12 shooters,

I had my H&R rifle out shooting at 100 yards. About twenty cases on & off ejected for the rifle to the LEFT! In the middle of my string of 100 rounds.

Took the bolt out twice to check if both extractors were working correctly. They seemed fine. Same ammo box used for the whole string..... Can it be a slight variation of case size or something else I'm missing?
I thought I was ejecting the cases the same way each time. Accuracy was fine!

Thanks for any thoughts on this odd event,
broom

edlmann 09-05-2021 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broomhandle (Post 2075202)
I had my H&R rifle out shooting at 100 yards. About twenty cases on & off ejected for the rifle to the LEFT! In the middle of my string of 100 rounds.
Took the bolt out twice to check if both extractors were working correctly. They seemed fine. Same ammo box used for the whole string..... Can it be a slight variation of case size or something else I'm missing?
I thought I was ejecting the cases the same way each time. Accuracy was fine!

Have you ever flushed the bolt? Might see if you can soak in mineral spirits.

broomhandle 09-05-2021 09:38 AM

Hello edlmann,

Your CORRECT! I should have thought of that myself! Not as sharp as I once was!:o
I have not shot the rifle for about 8 or 10 months do to the continuing health scare. The last 30 or so rounds were extracted properly. I'll give it another good cleaning! Even better it will go into the ULTRASOUND cleaner!
Apparently it's built to much tighter tolerances than my Mossberg's!

I did that bolt cleaning twice when I first bought the rifle & discovered both of the extractors were quite sluggish. It was better after a good deep cleaning. THANKS to the great advise for the good people here!

Thanks for your reply,
broom


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 AM.