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-   -   2019 modern military (http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=239559)

FF1915 01-14-2019 04:57 PM

The stripper guide and butt plate flap with pin,ball, and spring removed 4.5 oz from my M1A.

Mountain 01-14-2019 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF1915 (Post 1792858)
The stripper guide and butt plate flap with pin,ball, and spring remover 4.5 oz from my M1A.

Nice! I'd need a little more- maybe remove the entire butt plate and cover with a DIY aluminum plate, then remove the flash hider and any extra weight from a front sight. My stock is a beautifully restored USGI by LRB, so I won't be modifying any wood.

Ridiculous that we have to do this.

Talyn1 01-14-2019 05:57 PM

CMP must have used Wikipeda to establish the Class A weight threshold, but didn't quite understand standard deviations.

According to Wikipedia's M16 page the following weights are listed.

The original M-16 weight: 6.37 lb. (2.89 kg) (unloaded), 7.5 lb (3.40 kg) (loaded)

Note: according to the M16 weights listed above a loaded 30 rd. mag weighs 1.13 lbs.

The M16A1 weighed 7.9 pounds (3.6 kg) with a loaded 30-round magazine. (w/o mag = 6.77 lbs.)

The M16A2 weighs 8.8 lb. (4.0 kg) loaded with a 30-round magazine, because of the adoption of a thicker barrel profile. (w/o mag = 7.67 lbs.) Windham Weaponry lists their A2 Classic at 7.7 lbs. Other manufacturers of seemingly identically configured A2, or detachable carry handle fixed sight, rifles list varied weights.

So using the empty mag weight for an issue A2 even it would not meet the Class A weight threshold. So does how does CMP fit these semi-auto commercial equivalents of these rifles into Class A when they duplicate the configurations of the A2 issue rifles?

Should Class A only apply to M16/A1 configured ARs? That means a need for more M16/M16A1 retro parts, but kicks the A2 (adopted as issue in 1982) out of the Class.

Page ii of the 2019 CMP Games Rifle and Pistol Competition Rules says the..."The CMP Board of Directors and its Rules Committee has the sole authority to establish and amend these Rules." They can be reached.

Rule Interpretations. To obtain a clarification or interpretation of any CMP Rule, contact CMP Competitions, 419-635-2141, ext. 714 or 722 or competitions@thecmp.org, to request a CMP ruling or interpretation. The CMP staff has the authority to interpret unclear rules, but may not modify rules. The CPRPFS Board of Directors and its Rules Committee have the sole authority to modify CMP Competition Rules.

I suggest folks contact CMP requesting an amendment to 5.2.3 to change the weight to 8 lbs. This simple fix should cover the commercially available, 20" govt-profile barrel, fixed sight A2 and the heavier detachable-handle A4-type (issued as M16A2E4/M16A4) rifles as well as shorter-barreled as-issued carbine equivalents.

Also, considering a HBAR profile barrel weighs ~1 lb. more than a govt. profile barrel that would put a HBAR AR15 over a 8 lb. threshold. While the US military tested HBAR M16's these heavy barrel profiles were never standardized, so if CMP doesn't want HBAR AR rifles included in Class A then specifically state that, much like the specific exclusions in the Service rifle Rules.

Herzo 01-15-2019 12:43 PM

Reiteration of Rules posted this morning, Emphasis on "issue type sights", 7.5# weight, and allowing floating front ends for the AR's in MM.

Talyn1 01-15-2019 12:57 PM

Yes, we know.

I'd like a straight answer from CMP why the commercial AR15A2-type rifles (SA equivalent of the M16A2 that has been an issue rifle since 1982) has been excluded from Class A due to the 7.5 lb. weight limit.

Mountain 01-15-2019 02:30 PM

There are at least two easy solutions for this problem.

1) make a barrel out of brake tubing.
2) build a rifle with a skeletonized upper and lower set. Will only set you back another $500 - $600 dollars, right?

FF1915 01-15-2019 02:34 PM

I bought a criterion hybrid and an Odin O2 hanguard. Dropping the flash hider and just running a thread protector. Should make weight on an old A2 I had. Keep in mind these barrels and a new front sight need to be drilled and pined. That will add to the cost.

GarandThumb21 01-16-2019 09:20 PM

According to the Army’s Field Manual on Rifle Marksmanship, a M16A2 rifle, without magazine or sling, weighs 7.78 lbs. This information is not hard to locate. CMP should’ve known that their rule change would disqualify virtually any commercial variant of the M16 family of rifles, other than an M16A1.

Talyn1 01-16-2019 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarandThumb21 (Post 1793683)
According to the Army’s Field Manual on Rifle Marksmanship, a M16A2 rifle, without magazine or sling, weighs 7.78 lbs. This information is not hard to locate. CMP should’ve known that their rule change would disqualify virtually any commercial variant of the M16 family of rifles, other than an M16A1.

Yep. Anyone shooting at any CMP sanctioned event should bring this point up if they see any CMP officials allowing folks wanting to shoot the A2 in Class A matches.

But according to CMP..."The original Modern Military Rifle rules featured a 7.5 lbs. weight limit, restricted rifles to metallic sights and prohibited accurizing modifications that were common on M16-type match rifles. The new events proved to be popular, but every year there were more competitors who wanted to use rifles that were heavier or had accurizing features like float tubes.

For 2019, after much debate and inputs from many, the CMP decided to return the first Modern Military Rifle Class to its original rules as a Standard Modern Military Rifle and to establish a separate Unlimited Modern Military Rifle Class. The Standard Modern Military Rifle will go back to its original 7.5 lbs. weight limit for AR-type rifles and 9.0 lbs. for M1As. Standard Modern Military Rifles will be restricted to metallic sights only. Rifles that weigh more than 7.5 lbs. or 9.0 lbs. or that have optical sights will now be in the Unlimited Modern Military Rifle Class. Restrictions against float tubes or metallic sights with finer adjustments were removed for both classes. "


So CMP kicks the basic A2 into the unlimited class while contradicting themselves by criticizing float tubes then saying they're OK on a basic AR that never had them as an original feature.

All CMP needed to do was to say only ARs that replicate the original issue configuration are allowed in Class A.

I'm still building up my A2 for the fun of it, and in case CMP comes to its senses for Class A.

Gewehr43 01-16-2019 10:37 PM

Has anyone actually weighed a AR15A2? Instead of quoting books?


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