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8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
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13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
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If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
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You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
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OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
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- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
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DISCLAIMER
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I've started shooting in a weekly small bore matches. These are shot off a bench. I've been using various rifles, including a Remington 40X, several Winchester 52's and a Martini.
I've got two Finnish Lion target rifles-an M55 and an M65. I would like to shoot these in these rimfire matches, but have not found any way to mount a scope.
When I searched under Valmet M55 there are pictures of one with a scope for sale some time ago.
Looks like they just drilled and tapped blocks on top of the receiver flats. https://joesalter.ca/products/finish...model-55-rifle
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are God given rights, not government granted rights.
My 1960 Walther KKM only had slots for Walther Receiver sight. It was then d&t for Unertl blocks. So, can't put on modern scope.
Could try using epoxy to secure bases to barrel. Heat gun or propane torch to later remove. How secure is epoxy? I do not know.
Or use long piece of blank Weaver or Picitinny rail and epoxy down. This would give a lot of area for epoxy to attach to.
If there are long tube target scope mounts, attach rail to one or two sets of holes on rec and bbl and stabilize the rear with epoxy, or silicone, or a set screw bearing against the top surface of the receiver.
And if you or anybody does this, kindly post some feedback on your results.
Thanks, guys. I'm still contemplating what to do. I like the scope mounted on the receiver, because then I can use a receiver mounted scope, of which I have several.
On the other hand, if I drill the barrel for scope mounting blocks, I then am limited to the old school "long tube" scopes. I although, I could use an EGW mount that mounts using the rear block screws.
It is hard to tell from your photos exactly what the receiver shape is on top and on the left side. You might have to have to take it to a gunsmith to see what existing scope mounts would best fit the shape and contours.
Looking at the linked photo of the rifle with a scope, there does not seem to be much room for positioning and adjusting a scope, using the mounts that it has. If you already have a scope that you like, with your rifle mounted in a cradle or box, try positioning the scope above the receiver and align it with your eye when your cheek is in position on the stock. This will tell you if scope mounts on top of the receiver are even feasible with the scope you want. Note that the one shown has an extended front mount to make scope placement possible.
If your rear sight attaches on the left side of the receiver, perhaps you might consider getting a scope mount which uses the same screw holes, and then consider a shorter scope like those used by AR-15 shooters.
My 1960 Walther KKM only had slots for Walther Receiver sight. It was then d&t for Unertl blocks. So, can't put on modern scope.
Could try using epoxy to secure bases to barrel. Heat gun or propane torch to later remove. How secure is epoxy? I do not know.
Or use long piece of blank Weaver or Picitinny rail and epoxy down. This would give a lot of area for epoxy to attach to.
If there are long tube target scope mounts, attach rail to one or two sets of holes on rec and bbl and stabilize the rear with epoxy, or silicone, or a set screw bearing against the top surface of the receiver.
And if you or anybody does this, kindly post some feedback on your results.
I am not an expert on the use of epoxy for attaching scope bases. However, I have reservations as to its feasibility, based on other projects that I have worked on.
Epoxy is great for repairing wood cracks, and for joining wood to wood. I have repaired badly damaged fore ends which later broke again - but in new places and NOT where the epoxy repairs were.
But I have not had much luck with metal to metal bonding with epoxy.
It may work for a while, but has a tendency to come undone under changes in temperature because metal expands and contracts, causing the glue to suddenly separate from the metal. Also, you will be getting gun oil on or near it, as well as cleaning solvents.
Soldering would maybe be an alternative to drilling and tapping. It is done to attach front sight bases, but it would tend to mess up a lot of the rifle to do a long strip of scope base.
Perhaps others have had more experience and more luck in this area than I have had.
Possibly the type, brand of epoxy used would make a difference. As would surface prep.
How about a " space age" epoxy or fibreglas used for a marine or aeronautical purpose. One reads casual chatter about composites and bonding, also adhesives. The "good stuff" is probably out there. Products intended for industrial use.
The discontinued Vianni mount used the left side receiver sight holes and the rear most Unertl block holes.
There is a Vic Havlin side mount for the Mossberg M44 which uses factory drilled and tapped holes which some M44 had.
The Walther KKM has parallel grooves cut into the receiver top. The receiver sight slides onto these grooves and a side screw clamps the sight tight, so it works much like a clamp on 22 rimfire scope mount which also uses two grooves.
There are probably many forums that explore these problems and have answers. Rim Fire Forums, Benchrest,Target Rifle, Smallbore forums, .... and all permutations of Google Search.
So, if you have answers, tell us. Old threads inform for years. Google finds old threads.
Also, the OP mentions the use of Win 52,were they d&t by a user for a short scope?
It is hard to tell from your photos exactly what the receiver shape is on top and on the left side. You might have to have to take it to a gunsmith to see what existing scope mounts would best fit the shape and contours.
Looking at the linked photo of the rifle with a scope, there does not seem to be much room for positioning and adjusting a scope, using the mounts that it has. If you already have a scope that you like, with your rifle mounted in a cradle or box, try positioning the scope above the receiver and align it with your eye when your cheek is in position on the stock. This will tell you if scope mounts on top of the receiver are even feasible with the scope you want. Note that the one shown has an extended front mount to make scope placement possible.
If your rear sight attaches on the left side of the receiver, perhaps you might consider getting a scope mount which uses the same screw holes, and then consider a shorter scope like those used by AR-15 shooters.
Here are some better pictures of the receiver (same for both rifles)
The rear sight slides into a groove visible on the left side of the receiver and look like this...
Possibly the type, brand of epoxy used would make a difference. As would surface prep.
How about a " space age" epoxy or fibreglas used for a marine or aeronautical purpose. One reads casual chatter about composites and bonding, also adhesives. The "good stuff" is probably out there. Products intended for industrial use.
The discontinued Vianni mount used the left side receiver sight holes and the rear most Unertl block holes.
There is a Vic Havlin side mount for the Mossberg M44 which uses factory drilled and tapped holes which some M44 had.
The Walther KKM has parallel grooves cut into the receiver top. The receiver sight slides onto these grooves and a side screw clamps the sight tight, so it works much like a clamp on 22 rimfire scope mount which also uses two grooves.
There are probably many forums that explore these problems and have answers. Rim Fire Forums, Benchrest,Target Rifle, Smallbore forums, .... and all permutations of Google Search.
So, if you have answers, tell us. Old threads inform for years. Google finds old threads.
Also, the OP mentions the use of Win 52,were they d&t by a user for a short scope?
I have several Vianni mounts for my Winchester 52D, H&R M12, Remington 513T, and Winchester 75. As you say, they tied into the rear scope mount block on the barrel and the rear sight holes on the receiver. Wish Ken had made them for the Finnish Lion, but he has retired.
I have a scope mounted on my Winchester 52B using an EGW scope rail that uses only the rear scope mount blocks on the barrel. It looks a little flimsy, but seems to hold well enough to get good groupings.
I'm thinking of having the barrel of my Lions drilled for the scope blocks so I can use that mount.
Good photos. They give a lot better idea of the rear sight and receiver design.
Before drilling and tapping the barrel, I would consider having a base adaptor machined out of aluminum which would attach in the same manner as your many rear sights. This would keep the rifle original, and would allow you much more flexibility in selection of either scope or rear peep sights.
An aluminum base adaptor could be made from a piece of 90 degree stock, that would have a portion on the side to be inserted into the rear sight slot and tightened in place with the thumb screw. It would only have to extend as far forward as the rear of the loading opening so as not to impede loading or ejection. It would rise to whatever height you prefer for eventual attachment of the scope.
A piece of Picatinny rail attached to the top of this adaptor, extending as far forward (or back) as necessary would allow attachment of your scope bases and rings.
Such an arrangement would allow you to remove the entire scope, base, and adaptor for replacement by one of your rear sights for different competitions. If you mount the scope on the barrel as shown in the Photo of the Winchester, it will preclude this option.
Consider using a shorter type of scope with this arrangement, to reduce potential torque on the mount.
Last edited by navyrifleman; 03-02-2021, 09:02 AM.
Good photos. They give a lot better idea of the rear sight and receiver design.
Before drilling and tapping the barrel, I would consider having a base adaptor machined out of aluminum which would attach in the same manner as your many rear sights. This would keep the rifle original, and would allow you much more flexibility in selection of either scope or rear peep sights.
An aluminum base adaptor could be made from a piece of 90 degree stock, that would have a portion on the side to be inserted into the rear sight slot and tightened in place with the thumb screw. It would only have to extend as far forward as the rear of the loading opening so as not to impede loading or ejection. It would rise to whatever height you prefer for eventual attachment of the scope.
A piece of Picatinny rail attached to the top of this adaptor, extending as far forward (or back) as necessary would allow attachment of your scope bases and rings.
Such an arrangement would allow you to remove the entire scope, base, and adaptor for replacement by one of your rear sights for different competitions. If you mount the scope on the barrel as shown in the Photo of the Winchester, it will preclude this option.
Consider using a shorter type of scope with this arrangement, to reduce potential torque on the mount.
I'm onto a sight base that adapts the Finniswh lion to accept a Redfield International/Olympic sight. Wondering if that could be the basis of some sort of rear attachment for a scope base.
I'm onto a sight base that adapts the Finniswh lion to accept a Redfield International/Olympic sight. Wondering if that could be the basis of some sort of rear attachment for a scope base.
The part of your rear sight which inserts into the slot between the receiver and the stock would need to be replicated or used as a starting piece for a scope mount adapter. It would need to be very snugly attached - that is no wobble or movement.
The next part would need to go up and over the receiver, as close to the receiver as possible and level. To that you could attach any type of rail.
I finally broke down and had the barrel drilled for scope mounting blocks. I then used an EGW model 52 Winchester cantilever mount on the rear block position for a Bausch and Lomb 6-24 scope.
The barrel on the Finnish Lion is quite a bit heavier than the Winchester, so I had EGW re-radius the scope mount for the heavier profile.
I haven't shot it much, but did get it zeroed at 50 yards and shot a group with some Eley Tennex
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