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  #11  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:37 AM
Fogtripper Fogtripper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Third, ammo. It looks like you may be using wolf? I tried wolf ammo years ago and it was the most inaccurate ammo I ever used.
What type Wolf did you find so inaccurate? Wolf Match is amazingly good. At least in my 40X. Simply buying more expensive .22 ammo is not a solution, when it seems most 40Xs have different appetites.

Last edited by Fogtripper; 05-03-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:19 AM
glocke12 glocke12 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogtripper View Post
What type Wolf did you find so inaccurate? Wolf Match is amazingly good. At least in my 40X. Simply buying more expensive .22 ammo is not a solution, when it seems most 40Xs have different appetites.
I tried some of the 7.62x 39 and some 22 wolf...I dont recall if the 22 was match or not, but neither one gave me very good results in the rifles used...just my personal opinion, but given limited time and chances to shoot, Id rather use the best ammo I can afford...

While I also think this is really more of a technique issue, starting out with ammo that has a good reputation just eliminates one more variable...He doesnt have to buy a whole brick, thats why I suggested one or two boxes, and to be conservative (i,e, setup at 25 yards, shoot 5, check your groupings, shoot another 5 etc).
If his ammo is of questionable qaulity and consistency, he will never make any headway in terms of getting better.

OP, I am also sure if you look around, you might find a forum that caters to shooters in your area...You may be able to find someone who will go to the range with you and give you some pointers. Many people will be happy to help you out.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2012, 05:29 PM
bratt bratt is offline
 
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I want to preface this by saying I want to see you improve your shooting skills so you can enjoy your rifle instead of being frustrated.

Things I see watching your recent video and a couple others I watched in the past.

You look to be jerking the trigger. Hard to tell for sure on a video. Your finger moves forward immediately after the shot.

You are not following through. Stay in position a few seconds after shot. Reacquire target.

Your left hand is in a different spot every shot! Pick one! consistency

Benchrest and rested shooting differ in technique. By not using the rear bag you should apply rested methods. Hold the rifle like you would shooting with no rest then rest the forend. Right hand firmly grips the wrist, left hand gripping the forend behind the rest, both elbows on the table(forearm of right ok for your table), butt firmly on shoulder, head vertical not canted to the side, cheek bone squished on top of comb positioning eye behind sight, sightline through center of glasses if possible. A variation is to use your left hand to squeeze a bag supporting the buttstock. All points of pressure need to be consistent every shot.

Benchrest techniques are totally different. I am not a benchrester but the general idea is to rest the gun on the front and rear bags and touch the rifle the least amount possible. The rest and bags point the rifle at the target. The shooter should not interfere with the recoil. Other members will have more advice on benchresting. I have always shot better prone (Master/High-Master in high-power, Expert smallbore, Master BPCR silhouette).

Rested shooting techniques will better carry over to position shooting or field shooting. Benchresting can coax the best accuracy from a gun but rested will be very close.

Nothing should move between shots. You were all over the place. Only your right arm should move above the elbow. If you hold the rifle like above your bolt opening will be much smoother. Right thumb stays on grip,side of middle finger raises bolt pivoting hand/wrist on thumb, Hand comes back with bolt I have the bolt knob at the V of my middle and index fingers. Pick up new round remember don't move elbow! Have box in line with arc of your hand. Drop cartridge in feed trough. Push round forward with finger until lead is in chamber. V of fingers push bolt forward and down to close. Open and close bolt like you MEAN IT! You can pick up brass later. The thumb is now right over wrist of stock, Close grip, Check wind conditions, Pick up sights, Acquire target(it should be close to where the sights are pointing because you never moved and are holding with the same pressure. Right?), Breathe, Blink, Finger on trigger, Half breath, Focus on front sight, Sight picture, Squuueeeezzzee, Follow through, Reacquire target(it will be close with a 12lb 40x 22 and good technique), Call your shot. How far off did it break? Scope your target, Was the hit on call? Did the wind change?

Ammo. Decent low end target ammo will shoot expert or better scores with good technique and wind reading. Don't waste money on high end ammo until your hold is consistent. I never had money for better than low-mid range target ammo(Eley Target or club, Aguila match, RWS Target, 711B Fed). Usually the ammo is not the limit is shooting accuracy. Shooter performance, mental/pressure, wind are all much bigger factors even at the national level.

Aperture sights can shoot comparably with scopes IF you do everything PERFECTLY. It takes more practice and experience to shoot well with apertures. Adds one more variable. I noticed you shots some pretty decent groups with your Marlin 80. Similar bad form, slightly closer but with a scope. A scope allows more leeway to bad shooting skills. Might try a scope on your 40x til you improve. A spotting scope is neccessary to learn to shoot irons. You need feedback every shot to see if your shot was on call.

Good luck with your quest to better shooting. It is hard to coach remotely. Showing your videos to others is much better than trial and error but immediate feedback is much better. Try to find a much better shooter locally and ask for help. Go to a match and watch. After, when they are done, most shooters would be happy to spend a few minutes to help. The newbies who came to our practices showed huge increases in scores with a little coaching. Even high level shooters can see improvement from coaching or a second viewpoint.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:53 PM
MLHSR MLHSR is offline
 
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I would bet anything the problem is bedding inletting. it appears the barrel/action is slightly elevated and sitting on a slight angle upwards from the recoil lug forward. that's the first place I would look along with the proper length of the 2 action screws..
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Dollar Bill Dollar Bill is offline
 
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Bratt and the others have covered it pretty much. Wolf MT is good ammo. I get around .375 5 shot groups at 50 yds with my 40X HB or win 52. Lapua closer to .25 and Eley Black a hair better sometimes. So Wolf is fine for what you're doing.

Bench technique: Settle the rifle on the front rest and rear bag so the sights align on target or very close. Right hand grip the stock normally, not the way you are with thumb on top. Left hand / arm forward of rear bag. You can use your left hand to adjust the rear bag but when you do, allow the butt to settle back in the bag - don't push it in.

Shoot about 10 shots concentrating on the front sight. Squeeze that trigger gently, it should be adjusted to break under 1#. Watch when the shot breaks: Does the muzzle climb vertically or does it go to one side or the other? If it isn't rising consistantly straight up, your bench technique needs more work.

22s will teach you more about good bench techniques because you can see what is happenning, and the relatively long barrel dwell time makes that technique critical.

Besides technique, make sure the barrel pressure screws in the forend are backed out and not touching the barrel. Only use those to fine tune (trying to get that .2" group down to .18").

That's the main thing, and everyone else sees it. So work on that, get someone to coach, and lets us know how you're doing! Everyone starts somewhere.
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  #16  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:35 AM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is offline
 
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This is just a quick reply, as I cannot access youtube at work... Here is a couple more videos where I improve some of positioning on the rifle, and make a small discovery about the rifle itself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLihh3vBzUY&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPchO1CIAvQ&feature=plcp
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:29 AM
Fogtripper Fogtripper is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollar Bill View Post
Bratt and the others have covered it pretty much. Wolf MT is good ammo. I get around .375 5 shot groups at 50 yds with my 40X HB or win 52. Lapua closer to .25 and Eley Black a hair better sometimes. So Wolf is fine for what you're doing.
A few years ago I offered a menu of ammo to my (old) 40X. I tried the Eley, Lapua, Wolf, CCI and some subsonics that I watched nosedive at about 30 yards (could actually watch the bullet travel).

What the outing taught me was that throwing money at a problem of .22 ammo is not the best solution. From 50-100 yards, my particular 40X was finding the wolf and CCI Standard very accurate, with hardly a negligible difference with the "premium" offerings. Since then I have replaced that 40X HB with a USMC standard 40X, and will be doing the same menu for it this upcoming year. It will probably like something completely different.
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:13 AM
Dollar Bill Dollar Bill is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogtripper View Post
A few years ago I offered a menu of ammo to my (old) 40X. I tried the Eley, Lapua, Wolf, CCI and some subsonics that I watched nosedive at about 30 yards (could actually watch the bullet travel).

What the outing taught me was that throwing money at a problem of .22 ammo is not the best solution. From 50-100 yards, my particular 40X was finding the wolf and CCI Standard very accurate, with hardly a negligible difference with the "premium" offerings. Since then I have replaced that 40X HB with a USMC standard 40X, and will be doing the same menu for it this upcoming year. It will probably like something completely different.
That's my take on it. For position shooting, Wolf shoots just fine.

That crown could be the problem. Have your gunsmith address that (there should be no reason to remove the barrel, recrowning is too easy. You could do it yourself if you feel confident) and have him adjust your trigger (I heard your comments about it in the video).
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Last edited by Dollar Bill; 05-23-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:57 PM
presidentg presidentg is offline
 
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You're getting a bunch of real good advice here. Soon you'll have that 40X singing.
My USMC 40X shoots most ammo quite well but has a fondness for Center-X.
Also for those who didn't know, Wolf Match Extra and Match Target .22 ammo is made by SK Jagd, which is now part of Lapua.
Match Extra = SK Rifle Match, Match Target = SK Standard Plus.
Costs the same for either but I'll take the German package (Ich bin ein gerechtes Deutsch!).
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2012, 03:36 PM
Craftsman Craftsman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presidentg View Post
You're getting a bunch of real good advice here. Soon you'll have that 40X singing.
My USMC 40X shoots most ammo quite well but has a fondness for Center-X.
Also for those who didn't know, Wolf Match Extra and Match Target .22 ammo is made by SK Jagd, which is now part of Lapua.
Match Extra = SK Rifle Match, Match Target = SK Standard Plus.
Costs the same for either but I'll take the German package (Ich bin ein gerechtes Deutsch!).
Being new to the .22 scene, thanks for clearing up who makes the Wolf .22 ammo. I keep seeing guys refer to the "Wolf Match ammo", and I'm thinking it's by the Russian Co. that makes that crappy steel cased ammo, guys love to shoot cause it's so cheap!
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