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  #21  
Old 05-05-2012, 05:41 AM
MLHSR MLHSR is offline
 
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again, I would bet anything that action/barrel is under stress somewhere. is it inletting,bedding or bolt headspacing there is a problem with the mechanics of that rifle.
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  #22  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:25 AM
bigbird bigbird is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLHSR View Post
again, I would bet anything that action/barrel is under stress somewhere. is it inletting,bedding or bolt headspacing there is a problem with the mechanics of that rifle.
I have to agree with MLHSR there has to be some mechanical problem and the Muzzle crown and the heavy trigger pull may be part of it.

I also noticed that when Dragon64 was shooting the first 40X that he liked, but sold, he was shooting it left handed and he was shooting this 40X right handed. He was getting much better groups shooting left handed even though it was with the other rifle. I think that he is truly left handed, after seeing which hand he handled the bolt and loading with. He should try this rifle from the other side. It can make a difference.

A 40X should perform better than what his is doing especially with match grade ammo. The first time I shot my 40X , I was just in a hurry to see what it would do and the only ammo I had at the time was some Win super X and some Rem thunderbolt, both I would consider to be plinking ammo and the photos below is what I got through iron sights, even with my old eyes.

http://s15.postimage.org/l0c4h95rf/P4060002.jpg
http://s17.postimage.org/3x4aondmn/P4060005.jpg

Dragon64 I hope that you get your 40X shooting the way you like.
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  #23  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:36 PM
MLHSR MLHSR is offline
 
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bibbird you might be right about opposite handness..
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  #24  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:53 PM
bratt bratt is offline
 
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You looked much improved and consistent in your latest videos. Still have a long way to go.

I was trying to figure out what you are trying to do when handling your rifle. The overhand reach open bolt thing. I read one of your old posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGON64
I'm R/handed & L/eye dominate, and until recently, I have shot lefty. Once in ROTC (circa 1979-1980) I stopped shortly after the start of a qualifying shoot to switch to a left hand jacket to go and get marksman...until then, I could not get a shot on target while shooting righty.

Now I am comfortable either way, but my left eye sure gets tired when I squint for long periods of time shooting.
If you are shooting iron sights how your eyes react with the sights is very important. Every study I have read shows closing or squinting the off eye hurts accuracy. Using open sights at 1X magnification it is hard to separate the images of the dominate and off eye. The only solution to this contradiction is to use a blinder. The same studies have proven a translucent blinder is much better than an opaque because the eyes get the same amount of light.

The way iron sights are used is critical. .001s(thousands) of an inch matter. You asked at RFC about correct sight picture. You should not see the rear aperture. Your eye should naturally center itself in the hole. If you can notice the hole you are too far from the rear sight. The width of the front ring is not critical only a personal preference. You should only be focusing on the inner edge of the insert and centering the fuzzy blob that is the target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGON64
Can you provide a graphic or some kind of visual as to what I should see through the rear sight aperture? One of the things I do not care for with the supplied front globe sights, is the fat insert that comes with it from the CMP. When I align my shot, the fat ring is centered in the rear aperture view, just so there is no light coming in around the ring. Then the target is centered inside the fat insert from the globe sight, with even light showing from around the target. Very tough to describe, but essentially, everything is centered up...
Most people think a tight ring of white between the aperture an target is more accurate. They would be wrong. Of course there is variation based on light and conditions but approximately half of the bullseye width is the correct white gap. This is a nice table giving correct aperture sizes for common targets. http://fuzzylimey.net/projects/targapert.html

If you are shooting right handed, use your right hand to operate the bolt. You have developed a very bad habit! How will you ever shoot doing the right/left hand flip flop if the gun is not supported? The left hand should stay where it was during the shot (holding the forend, in a sling, or if on a bench move from the bag and grab the bottom of the butt while operating the bolt)

Your head does not need to raise from the stock. Glance down to see your right hand pick up another cartridge. Watch your hand drop the round in the nifty feeding tray that guides the ammo into the chamber with no need to see it happen! Every time you remove anything touching the rifle it much be replaced in the same exact way with the same pressure. It is much easier to leave everything the way it was. Yes it can be done with much practice and experience. One of the reasons in high-power for the "shooters rise" portion of rapid-fire is to force the competitors to train for reacquiring their position, hold and natural point of aim.

If you operate the bolt quickly and forcefully while maintaining your position, the rifle will not move so much. You are being much too gentle. The 40x/700 action was designed for centerfire cartridges. You won't hurt it. With experience you can be fast and smooth.

Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4soI4P0DNZo

Heres one with a 22.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdSSjEhbVUs

Print only one target per page. Besides crossfiring on the wrong target it is easy for the other bulls to interfere with your sight picture. All you want is a white ring around your bull and also around the outside of the insert ring. Speaking of white, white paper tends to glare. There is too much contrast to the bull. There is a reason they use buff paper on regulation targets.

Continue trying to improve. It is a long never ending road. Even top shooters like David Tubb are constantly striving to get better.
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  #25  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:15 AM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is offline
 
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Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presidentg View Post
You're getting a bunch of real good advice here. Soon you'll have that 40X singing.
My USMC 40X shoots most ammo quite well but has a fondness for Center-X.
Also for those who didn't know, Wolf Match Extra and Match Target .22 ammo is made by SK Jagd, which is now part of Lapua.
Match Extra = SK Rifle Match, Match Target = SK Standard Plus.
Costs the same for either but I'll take the German package (Ich bin ein gerechtes Deutsch!).
Most definitely, that is why I ask for and receive the advice that I get. Some of it can be hardline at times, but it is all good, and for a reason. I did know that about the about the Sk ammo, and I will pick up a 500-round brick once my rifle comes back from the shop. Thanks prsidentg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollar Bill View Post
That's my take on it. For position shooting, Wolf shoots better than I can.

That crown could be the problem. Have your gunsmith address that (there should be no reason to remove the barrel, recrowning is too easy. You could do it yourself if you feel confident) and have him adjust your trigger (I heard your comments about it in the video).
I have an appointment this week to turn in the rifle for a check up. If the crown is the problem or not, I want it reworked correctly, as this appears to have been done with a dull drill bit with no guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark4470 View Post
Who said a 40x will not shoot wolf mt very good this was done off a bench with a bipod (no bags) at 50 yards with iron sights. The torque is less than 10" pounds. Just shot this 5 shot group 10 min. Ago.

[IMG]removed[/IMG]
Nice shooting... is this the 40X you are selling? WHY?!
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  #26  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:28 AM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is offline
 
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Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLHSR View Post
again, I would bet anything that action/barrel is under stress somewhere. is it inletting,bedding or bolt headspacing there is a problem with the mechanics of that rifle.
The rifle is bedded, but not by me. I was told that the rifle may have been an Air Force match rifle, and that they were known for bedding their rifles... I cabnnot confirm. The rifle will be in the shop this week, and I plan to have the gunsmith work his mojo on the her... I can't wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbird View Post
I have to agree with MLHSR there has to be some mechanical problem and the Muzzle crown and the heavy trigger pull may be part of it.

I also noticed that when Dragon64 was shooting the first 40X that he liked, but sold, he was shooting it left handed and he was shooting this 40X right handed. He was getting much better groups shooting left handed even though it was with the other rifle. I think that he is truly left handed, after seeing which hand he handled the bolt and loading with. He should try this rifle from the other side. It can make a difference.

A 40X should perform better than what his is doing especially with match grade ammo. The first time I shot my 40X , I was just in a hurry to see what it would do and the only ammo I had at the time was some Win super X and some Rem thunderbolt, both I would consider to be plinking ammo and the photos below is what I got through iron sights, even with my old eyes.

http://s15.postimage.org/l0c4h95rf/P4060002.jpg
http://s17.postimage.org/3x4aondmn/P4060005.jpg

Dragon64 I hope that you get your 40X shooting the way you like.
About my handiness; it sucks being left eye dominant in a sport that is lacking in choices for left handed stocks etc. I shoot some air rilfes as well, and needed a left handed stock for some of the field target action I like to shoot, and trying to find a lefty stock proved quite expensive. The advice given me was to learn (train your eye) to shoot right handed, or go deep in the pocket book and have lefty stocks made, and hold out for left handed actions.

When I get my rifle back, I work from the left side, and see how well that works for my accuracy.

As for the reach over... I have psoriasis really bad, and it shows on my right arm... I figured it would not come out in the video... but ultimately did anyways... There, I'm out

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLHSR View Post
bibbird you might be right about opposite handness..
Luckily the 40X stock is ambidextrous, so I can convert when so desired. But for the sake of clearing up any anomally that could be causing the poor groupings, I will go back to lefty when I get my rifle back.
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  #27  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:36 AM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is offline
 
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Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bratt View Post
You looked much improved and consistent in your latest videos. Still have a long way to go.

I was trying to figure out what you are trying to do when handling your rifle. The overhand reach open bolt thing. I read one of your old posts.



If you are shooting iron sights how your eyes react with the sights is very important. Every study I have read shows closing or squinting the off eye hurts accuracy. Using open sights at 1X magnification it is hard to separate the images of the dominate and off eye. The only solution to this contradiction is to use a blinder. The same studies have proven a translucent blinder is much better than an opaque because the eyes get the same amount of light.

The way iron sights are used is critical. .001s(thousands) of an inch matter. You asked at RFC about correct sight picture. You should not see the rear aperture. Your eye should naturally center itself in the hole. If you can notice the hole you are too far from the rear sight. The width of the front ring is not critical only a personal preference. You should only be focusing on the inner edge of the insert and centering the fuzzy blob that is the target.



Most people think a tight ring of white between the aperture an target is more accurate. They would be wrong. Of course there is variation based on light and conditions but approximately half of the bullseye width is the correct white gap. This is a nice table giving correct aperture sizes for common targets. http://fuzzylimey.net/projects/targapert.html

If you are shooting right handed, use your right hand to operate the bolt. You have developed a very bad habit! How will you ever shoot doing the right/left hand flip flop if the gun is not supported? The left hand should stay where it was during the shot (holding the forend, in a sling, or if on a bench move from the bag and grab the bottom of the butt while operating the bolt)

Your head does not need to raise from the stock. Glance down to see your right hand pick up another cartridge. Watch your hand drop the round in the nifty feeding tray that guides the ammo into the chamber with no need to see it happen! Every time you remove anything touching the rifle it much be replaced in the same exact way with the same pressure. It is much easier to leave everything the way it was. Yes it can be done with much practice and experience. One of the reasons in high-power for the "shooters rise" portion of rapid-fire is to force the competitors to train for reacquiring their position, hold and natural point of aim.

If you operate the bolt quickly and forcefully while maintaining your position, the rifle will not move so much. You are being much too gentle. The 40x/700 action was designed for centerfire cartridges. You won't hurt it. With experience you can be fast and smooth.

Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4soI4P0DNZo

Heres one with a 22.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdSSjEhbVUs

Print only one target per page. Besides crossfiring on the wrong target it is easy for the other bulls to interfere with your sight picture. All you want is a white ring around your bull and also around the outside of the insert ring. Speaking of white, white paper tends to glare. There is too much contrast to the bull. There is a reason they use buff paper on regulation targets.

Continue trying to improve. It is a long never ending road. Even top shooters like David Tubb are constantly striving to get better.
"Pearls", thank you very much. I may look into an optical blnder, or just use paint to blacken one of the lenses on my shooting glasses, anything to reduce eye fatigue. I noticed that my sight began to blurr the more I shot, and I was only shooting 30 to 35 rounds in a sitting.

As I mentioned in my other postings, I will swap back to lefty, and see if that makes a difference. I know when I shot for the ROTC as a middle schooler, I had to switch at the start of a match from righty to lefty, as I could not find my target. I ultimately shot marksman when I changed to lefty... So why am I trying to change now? Stiock choices on many of the rifles I like to shoot are designed for a righty, and lefty's are expensive, and few and far between.

I'll check the videos when I get home this evening, thanks again for all of the great advice.
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2012, 01:07 PM
bratt bratt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGON64 View Post
"Pearls", thank you very much. I may look into an optical blnder, or just use paint to blacken one of the lenses on my shooting glasses, anything to reduce eye fatigue. I noticed that my sight began to blurr the more I shot, and I was only shooting 30 to 35 rounds in a sitting.
Use Scotch Magic transparent tape. Removeable and does not change the amount of light. I use one strip positioned so it blocks only the target. I can still see wind flags, my position, ammo etc.

By using a blinder over your dominate left eye, your right eye becomes dominate. Of course your shooting eye needs to be health with good vision. Not sure which handedness would be best, just know how awkward your current gun handling looks. A blinder will help even if you change.

With both eyes open and not squinting there should be no more fatigue than everyday concentrating on fine details. Your eyes will function the same as if you glance to the side and the view of your dominate eye is blocked by your nose. The eyes automatically compensate and it seems as your nose is transparent. Try it.
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2012, 01:49 PM
MP10-32 MP10-32 is offline
 
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Posts: 1,112
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"Wind Flags" I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, so I will briefly. The wind is a dominant factor when shooting .22RF outdoors. You need flags and you need to understand the effect of the wind on your .22 bullet at your tgt. distance. A good cross wind will blow you out of the black. You need to hold off or play the wind condition to take your shot. Wind will effect windage and elevation. Changing wind can be a real mind game.

Wind flags / indicators can be engineering marvels or simply a long dowel, screw, paper clip(large) and surveyor ribbon. Bend the paper clip so it will easy rotate around the screw in the top of the dowel. The blowing ribbon will show direction and approx. speed by the lifting of the ribbon.

Dragon--you need to be a student and search out knowledge on any shooting you do. It's all about knowledge, practice, and doing it right for every shot. You can't just buy accuracy, you are a big part of it. have fun with it and stive to improve each time you shoot. Also learn from each session--know why your shots are going where they are.

We shoot a 100 yd. brenchrest league. Last week we had a strong cross wind blowing right to left, 2 to 3 o'clock. First shot 9 at 8 o'clock. I was holding way right-WOW! Next two shots, the same! I could not convince myself to hold more right. 4th. & 5th. shots 10s. The next 20 shots, only dropped 2 more points.
I should have had shots 2 & 3 as 10's, but could not get my brain to hold that far out! Every shot was scary, but was shooting 10's. I put out four wind flags at 100 yards.

Tied for first place--could have easily been 2 points higher--had I been able to hold off more earlier. Point is, when your shooting 9s, you need to change something to get back in the 10 ring.

Your rifle and ammo must be able to shoot middle 10 ring at whatever game you choose. Then it's up to you to keep them in the 10 ring! If it was easy, everyone would be shooting perfect scores! Been shooting for a LONG time--last season in prone league was the first time I cleaned both iron sight tgts. at 100 yds for a clean 200! I was so spent/exhausted from shooting that clean with the iron sights, I ended up dropping a couple pionts with the scope--again a brain/mental thing Haven't shot a clean 400 yet, but I'm working at it--AND IT IS WORK!
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:57 PM
MLHSR MLHSR is offline
 
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when trying to shoot opposite handed target location and parallax with open sights come into play. shooting right handed and being left eye dominate causes the shot to fall to the right, light also bends around these inserts which causes parallax issues with target misalighnment.. when I swithched to mostly left I took the top from a postage stamps and covered the shooting glasses on my right eye untill I was able to concentrate totaly with my left.
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