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  #61  
Old 02-28-2014, 09:41 PM
usriflecaliber.30m1 usriflecaliber.30m1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by GGaskill View Post
Why did they do away with the .276 Pederson? (I know about MacArthur and such.)

So you don't believe the MacArthur explanation or what?
No I believe it.
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  #62  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:09 AM
Ping Ping is offline
 
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Originally Posted by usriflecaliber.30m1 View Post
Why did they do away with the .276 Pederson? (I know about Macarther and such.) It seems to be the 'intermediate round they are looking for. More power that a .223 and smaller than a .30-06 but still powerful enough.
Does anybody here know why the US military doesn't migrate toward the 6.8 SPC in light of what the discussion has been on this thread and the fact it's so easily adaptable to the AR platform?
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  #63  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:33 AM
GGaskill GGaskill is offline
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Don't KNOW but I'll bet it is a variation of not invented here with "here" being the Pentagon or the Ordnance Branch. And there is the expense of rebarreling and re-bolting and re-magazining and the socialists won't even fund the Veterans Admin properly to cover our current veterans.
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Last edited by GGaskill; 03-01-2014 at 03:03 AM.
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  #64  
Old 03-01-2014, 09:23 AM
DetroitMan DetroitMan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Ping View Post
Does anybody here know why the US military doesn't migrate toward the 6.8 SPC in light of what the discussion has been on this thread and the fact it's so easily adaptable to the AR platform?
Expense mostly. They can't let one (under-developed and over-budget) F-35 go to equip our troops with a decent cartridge.
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  #65  
Old 03-01-2014, 03:24 PM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
 
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Originally Posted by M14 View Post
Yawn ?...Really ? Seen much combat have you, with both rifles ? I can assure you the M14 was not a failure. It was the "infantry" that was the failure. Any weapon is only as good as the man using it. Draft all the Joe Blows off the street and that's what you get....failure of character and determination. A man's heart has to be committed to his task, especially in war. He has to believe in what he is doing. That was not the case during the Viet Nam police action. Not a war. It went all the way back to the late 50's and early 60's in Laos and our government had troops and advisors in there telling us it was to stop communism and the catastrophe of the Plane of Jars. There is a big difference to the men actually engaged in those cases. It was not about communism at all, but about sugar and other natural resources, massive plantations left behind by the French, and America's power structure deciding to just go and take it, just like they did to the American Indians here.
I'm wet behind the ears compared too most of you old worn out guys that lived through this time period, but I have 5 Uncle's that lived and went and did there part, one that didn't come home.

But if you look back Our evolvement started after WWII, with Ike and Nixon. After WWII, France wanted there colonies restored. Now before Ho became Uncle Ho Chi Mien, he fought against the JAP's without any help from France or any other Allied forces. He felt that the Viet Mien earned the right too govern themselves and rightly so you would as well. When the US sided with France, Strike #1 for the USA, Ho was HOT so what did he do? made war on the French.... and he has them beat, don't forget there was British and Aussie after the French but the USA cannot support looser's so we start a power shift and support the South Vietnamese. At leased the French, British, Aussies and the since too take there licks and let them have there little country.

Strike #2 Though Pre War agreements and Treaties, the USA has too support its Allies in this case France. However the USA started quietly with advisors at first, But Ho and the Viet Mien don't have support, so he turns too where he can get it. USSR and China, I don't think Ho was a Die Hard Commie at first, all he wanted was the French gone and later all western influence out of his country and he was willing too make a deal with the devil and do what's needed just like he did against the JAP's! and the Viets too govern themselves. But he has to go with the flow too get what he needs, Ho now becomes Uncle Ho Chi Mien. Now the USA needs a excuse too get more involved because Communism is growing and WE don't like the way our little yellow confused brothers are not learning how too make WAR. So weather it was real or not the Gulf of Tonkin is used and we are going in and we are going too show them how too do it along the way.

Strike #3 Politicians can't fight, so they need stay out of the way and let the Dog's of War do the dirty work. Mismanagement from the top down doesn't make for winning.

Draftees being this reason for the decline of American fighting forces, WWII and Korea used there fair share of them as well and there wasn't a real measurable decline. I think if you look back you will see the major decline is after Walter Cronkite said the war was unwinnable and the Anti War effort really kicked off. Oddly after Cronkite's statement the USMC doesn't except draftee's into there ranks? I think Cronkite's statement had more effect on US morale and the USA as a whole then any number of Draftee's.... When Walter spoke even E.F. Hutton's ears perked up.....

A very good read, Otto J. Lehrack's book, " The Frist Battle: Operation Starlight Blood Dept. in Vietnam."
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  #66  
Old 03-01-2014, 06:12 PM
Ryan V Ryan V is offline
 
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After reading all this, i am thinking M14 would be a cool guy to have a beer with.

RVP
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  #67  
Old 03-02-2014, 06:53 AM
Renisin Renisin is offline
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I'm thinking a soldier is only as good as their leadership. To the men and women who fought it, it was a war, to the politians it was a police action and to the rest of us it was a fiasco.

Men are not born, they are made.

Last edited by Renisin; 03-02-2014 at 07:58 AM.
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  #68  
Old 03-04-2014, 09:39 AM
BravoSierra BravoSierra is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Kestrel:

The SCAR 17 is equally versatile and a better choice than the M14.
This.

The SCAR is whats coming, or something akin to it. It is lightweight, and has much less wind deflection than that of an AR, and you are able to mount the lasers and lights that our now required without hassle. If the DOD was going to go with new ammo, and just rebarrel/bolt/magazine (yeah right) i'd think they need to look at the 6.5 offerings. Which is why i come full circle to the SCAR, 7.62 is already in the system, and the SCAR is already fielded to the Ranger Regiments, and has a proven track record. Mix half a fire team with them, and i'd think you'd hear alot less **********ing. Then again, train everyone to shoot the same standards as a DM, and i dont think youd hear that **********ing except from those of us that yearn for wood and steel.
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  #69  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:16 PM
mattee88 mattee88 is offline
 
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With all the veterans here, I would be curious to hear..."in Iraq I used xxxxx and it performed flawlessly or whatever versus "unless you have been shot at" "politicians..big government" or "9/11 blah blah"

I would be curious to see what combat vets thought/think of what they carried.

Matt
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  #70  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:23 PM
MyTurn MyTurn is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattee88 View Post
With all the veterans here, I would be curious to hear..."in Iraq I used xxxxx and it performed flawlessly or whatever versus "unless you have been shot at" "politicians..big government" or "9/11 blah blah"

I would be curious to see what combat vets thought/think of what they carried.

Matt
+1! Absolutely. Let's hear from some people with real world, contemporary experience.
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