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  #21  
Old 04-06-2021, 08:16 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is online now
 
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C.E. Harris designed a couple of cast bullets for use specifically in the AK-47 (7.62mmx39) which Lee produces molds for. These cast as .312 and are designed to be used with (or without) gas checks.

One of these bullets (Lee #CTL312-160-2R) has a very pointed nose, and with pure lead, weighs 160 grains. I use a harder lead/tin combination which is a bit lighter (the bullets come out at about 150 grains). I attach the Hornady gas checks using a Lee bullet sizer which produces .309 diameter bullets.

I use liquid Alox to lubricate these bullets, which dries on them sort of like the wax lubricant on .22 bullets. The Alox is easy to use and greatly reduces leading of the bore.

These bullets are loaded into 30-06 cases, using powders listed in Cast Bullet Loading Manuals. Powders that I like to use are IMR-4198 and IMR-3031.

I use a case neck expander prior to seating the bullets and a Lee Factory Crimp to crimp the bullets in place after seating them.

I have not shot them in my M1 Garand as yet, but have done a considerable amount of shooting with them in my Remington 03A3 test rifle. Accuracy results are very good.

Last edited by navyrifleman; 04-06-2021 at 05:39 PM.
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2021, 09:09 AM
Garandpa Garandpa is offline
 
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Pardon the interruption, but would anyone here venture to guess (or know first hand), how suitable the Lee 230 gr mold (TL309-230-5R) (34307 90307) would be as a performer in the Garand or 1903A3 platforms? This boat-tailed style projectile doesn't appear to lend itself to gas-checking, and I bought it primarily for the 300AAC. I haven't cast anything out of this mold yet, but looking at it, I'm wondering if I should confine its use strictly to the Blackout cartridge, or experiment with it in the 308 or 30-06 chamberings too? Is it even worthwhile to experiment?
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  #23  
Old 04-06-2021, 09:36 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandpa View Post
Pardon the interruption, but would anyone here venture to guess (or know first hand), how suitable the Lee 230 gr mold (TL309-230-5R) (34307 90307) would be as a performer in the Garand or 1903A3 platforms? This boat-tailed style projectile doesn't appear to lend itself to gas-checking, and I bought it primarily for the 300AAC. I haven't cast anything out of this mold yet, but looking at it, I'm wondering if I should confine its use strictly to the Blackout cartridge, or experiment with it in the 308 or 30-06 chamberings too? Is it even worthwhile to experiment?
I can't comment on loading that particular 230 grain bullet for the M1 Garand, other than to say that it is much heavier than any bullet normally used.

I would suggest that you consider using your 03A3 to test and work up any cast bullet loads.

Loading data in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is only listed for lead bullets weighing up to 210 grains. Your bullet is not listed.

If you were to use a harder alloy combination than pure lead, the actual bullets cast would probably weigh less than 230 grains. I would say make up a batch, weigh them and see. Then go into the manuals with the actual weight to see what load recipes are recommended as starting loads.

You will find that the powders recommended in the cast bullet recipes are quite different from powders used/recommended for jacketed bullets.

As bullet weight increases, chamber pressures go up. Because of this, generally you will find that recommended starting grains of powder tend to go down for heavier bullets. Study the manual and compare recommended loads.

With a bolt action rifle like the 03A3, you should have no trouble loading and shooting any of the recommended loads in the Cast Bullet Handbook. Start low and work your way up incrementally but do not exceed the maximums listed.

The M1 Garand, being a semi automatic, has to have enough chamber pressure to cycle the action, but not so much that it damages the op rod and other internal parts. So, the window of acceptable load recipes is more narrow than that of a bolt action rifle.
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  #24  
Old 04-06-2021, 09:52 AM
HighpowerRifleBrony HighpowerRifleBrony is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navyrifleman View Post
The M1 Garand, being a semi automatic, has to have enough port pressure and volume to cycle the action, but not so much that it damages the op rod and other internal parts. So, the window of acceptable load recipes is more narrow than that of a bolt action rifle.
Unless shooting matches where semiauto function is required, straight pull is more fun.

I've not used cast boolits in a Garand, but the standby of 13gr Red Dot/standard weight or lighter bullet is hard to beat. VV N32C and Hodgdon Trailboss are bulkier, making charges easier to inspect, and reduce velocity variation.
17gr N32C/125gr HP and 16gr N32C/150gr FMJ at 1800 and 1600fps have been pleasant.
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  #25  
Old 04-06-2021, 11:07 AM
JimF JimF is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighpowerRifleBrony View Post
Unless shooting matches where semiauto function is required, straight pull is more fun. . . . .
Just as a matter of interest . . . .

Way back when I was an active competitor, the NRA rule book had a “typo” that I took full advantage of.

When describing the Service rifle (M1, M14, and M16, and their commercial equivalents) it stated VERY CLEARLY that the gas system had to be fully operational . . . .EXCEPT in the section pertaining to the M1.

It was OMITTED in ONLY that section!

Clearly an oversight . . .BUT . . . . I took advantage and temporarily disconnected the system in order to achieve more accuracy and negate chasing my brass in the poison ivy!

I was “called out” about that, but I showed them the rule book, and they couldn’t believe it! (Am I the ONLY ONE to actually read the rules??)

The book was later “corrected”, but for a few years, I used my Garand as a “straight-pull, repeater”.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2021, 08:21 PM
BLACKPOWDERBREKKEN15 BLACKPOWDERBREKKEN15 is offline
 
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I have been and am going to shoot a lot more cast bullets through my garand. I just got back from range were I got some chrono data. I am using the lee 160 gr .312 Dia. I put 2 coats of hitek gold coating on them love the hi tek stuff used to stand every bullet up and spray them with powder coat but bases would never get coated. Anyways 8lbs of 6.5 staball powder my first charge batch was 39.0gr this cycled without fail. And threw brass over my head about 8 ft back. It chronographs at 1950fps. I use sageoutdoors gas checks which I crimp and size to .309 Dia running the bullet point up. I also run the same recipe in .303 british but sized to .311 with .303 gas checks from sage.

My questions are does any one have any load data for 6.5staball with there garand ?
And when I run the 150 Creedmoor brand brass necks get really beatin up not sure what they are hitting need need friend to capture with high speed camera the cast loads look perfect after shot.

I do want to increase my load a bit as I have a little soot on a couple in the special rack garand but more so with the 303 British chamber is probably not as tight and a little too light to expand the brass.
Please let me know if you have feedback or questions
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  #27  
Old 04-07-2021, 08:32 AM
Pinecone Pinecone is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandpa View Post
Pardon the interruption, but would anyone here venture to guess (or know first hand), how suitable the Lee 230 gr mold (TL309-230-5R) (34307 90307) would be as a performer in the Garand or 1903A3 platforms? This boat-tailed style projectile doesn't appear to lend itself to gas-checking, and I bought it primarily for the 300AAC. I haven't cast anything out of this mold yet, but looking at it, I'm wondering if I should confine its use strictly to the Blackout cartridge, or experiment with it in the 308 or 30-06 chamberings too? Is it even worthwhile to experiment?
From Lee page on that mold:

Quote:
TL309-230-5R for 30 Cal Rifle (300 AAC Blackout). Best subsonic. Requires Fast Twist Rifling.
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  #28  
Old 04-07-2021, 09:49 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKPOWDERBREKKEN15 View Post
I have been and am going to shoot a lot more cast bullets through my garand. I just got back from range were I got some chrono data. I am using the lee 160 gr .312 Dia. I put 2 coats of hitek gold coating on them love the hi tek stuff used to stand every bullet up and spray them with powder coat but bases would never get coated. Anyways 8lbs of 6.5 staball powder my first charge batch was 39.0gr this cycled without fail. And threw brass over my head about 8 ft back. It chronographs at 1950fps. I use sageoutdoors gas checks which I crimp and size to .309 Dia running the bullet point up. I also run the same recipe in .303 british but sized to .311 with .303 gas checks from sage.

My questions are does any one have any load data for 6.5staball with there garand ?
And when I run the 150 Creedmoor brand brass necks get really beatin up not sure what they are hitting need need friend to capture with high speed camera the cast loads look perfect after shot.

I do want to increase my load a bit as I have a little soot on a couple in the special rack garand but more so with the 303 British chamber is probably not as tight and a little too light to expand the brass.
Please let me know if you have feedback or questions
I initially bought my Lee .312 bullet mold to make bullets for loading in a 7.7 Japanese Arisaka. They would also work well in the British .303 or the Russian 7.62 rifles. I tried them in both .308 Winchester and .30-06 after sizing them down to .309 and was quite pleased with them.

Soot on the necks is something I look for when shooting reloads. It is usually, as you suggest, due to being a bit of an under load, since the necks did not expand enough during firing. I make note of it in the log but don't worry about it if accuracy is good. However, it is something to watch for, along with extruded primers.

Adjust your loads up in small increments, look for accuracy improvement (or deterioration), and settle in on the best recipe for that particular rifle.

Not sure what you mean by the case necks being beaten up. If it is a flattening of the edge in a recurring pattern, it is probably that the case is being ejected just a little too soon, causing the case to strike the receiver ring. Does it do this in other rifles or just the one?

The British .303 is a rimmed cartridge and the bolt headspaces on the rim, rather than on the case shoulder. Soot on the necks of those cases might be more common than for a .30-06.
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  #29  
Old 04-07-2021, 10:53 AM
BLACKPOWDERBREKKEN15 BLACKPOWDERBREKKEN15 is offline
 
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Good info. On the cmp ordered rounds I was surprised to see 2889 fps on the chrono the case mouths most are at least flattened but other look like something bent into the neck/mouth with a 90 degree point. I wanna say they are hitting the front of the rear sight as ther is so.e brass scuffs there. Just not sure. Something just doesn't seem right even with the light cast loads it flings then 8 to 10 ft behind me when standing. I will try to figure out a way to post picture's. On your case bullets are you using lube or some sort of powder method?
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:43 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKPOWDERBREKKEN15 View Post
Good info. On the cmp ordered rounds I was surprised to see 2889 fps on the chrono the case mouths most are at least flattened but other look like something bent into the neck/mouth with a 90 degree point. I wanna say they are hitting the front of the rear sight as ther is so.e brass scuffs there. Just not sure. Something just doesn't seem right even with the light cast loads it flings then 8 to 10 ft behind me when standing. I will try to figure out a way to post picture's. On your case bullets are you using lube or some sort of powder method?
Regarding the case mouth distortion, it does sound like an ejection problem - possibly one of timing. I am not an expert on the M1 Garand, so perhaps others with more expertise on the subject can offer advice.

I do know that when working up reloads for my M-4 carbine, the "pattern" of ejected cases changes with each different load recipe. Some reloads have more of a tendency than others for cases hitting the case deflector on side of the receiver. You may find the same variation is true in M1 Garand reloads.

I use liquid Alox bullet lubricant for all of my cast bullets. It is made by Lee and it is easy to apply. Just swizzle a bit of it into a plastic tub (like cottage cheese comes in) on a handful of bullets, put the lid on and swirl them around. Spread them out on a sheet of wax paper and let them dry for a day or two. The stuff works great.

If you size the bullets, you need to run them through the Alox process again after sizing.
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