Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > Smallbore
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:13 PM
aj98 aj98 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SE VA
Posts: 2,650
Default

Dragon,

note the body position in these pics:
http://s17.postimage.org/hago6nru7/DSCN2011.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/cd1b3flyp/DSCN2019.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/erxs1lrld/DSCN2022.jpg


That is what I was trying to get across with "raise the rifle" and "point the left knee at the target...."

Head is close to vertical, and eye close(r) to the rear sight.
Your body is not twisted in order to keep the rifle in your shoulder.
(if your are twisted, your muscles will try to snap back to center (NPA) which will pull your shots)

Leaning slightly forward (pic2011) so the recoil does not push you too far backwards (that is, knock you off balance)

You can get away with it with a 22, but ... shoot a 308 in rapid sitting - if you are sitting vertical or leaning backwards - the 308 has enough recoil to literally roll you backwards so that your shoulderblade touches the ground - and yes, I know this through experience
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:44 PM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbird View Post
I think that the sight setup on any rifle is a personal preference as to what works best for each person. One size doesn't fit all.
I don't know it the sight setup on my 40X is of any help to you but here it is.

http://s18.postimage.org/f2ltyeol5/P3080002.jpg
http://s17.postimage.org/aoq61o7u7/P3080005.jpg
http://s10.postimage.org/qxclko8pl/P3080004.jpg
http://postimage.org/image/optxlv6yd/

This is me firing a close friends 40X with a scope. Notice the eye relief from the scope, it is about the same as I have from a peep sight. Also notice where the left hand is.

http://s17.postimage.org/hago6nru7/DSCN2011.jpg

I noticed that you appear to be positioning your self on the side of your rifle and not behind it. The following photos are of my son shooting his 513T but notice the position he is using, it is upright and behind the rifle also note the eye relief from the rear sight.

http://s14.postimage.org/cd1b3flyp/DSCN2019.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/erxs1lrld/DSCN2022.jpg
http://s8.postimage.org/pjp6upret/DSCN2024.jpg

I am not sure that any of this will help but just maybe it might.
I am sure that I don't shoot using the same methods as others but it is the way I was taught and has always worked for me and my son is becoming a very good shooter too.
I truly believe that the 40X is the best target rifle I have ever shot.
good luck

Jim
Awesome visual, that you very much. First off, compared to your rear sight, mine was mounted fully forward. I have set mi sight back a bit, and I believe I will be able to sight the front sight as dscribed by a number of members who have helped me here and at Rimfire Central. I have a three day weekend, and much of that will be spent working on my posturing behind the rifle as you have depiected. Again, that you very much for the visual aids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj98 View Post
Dragon,

note the body position in these pics:
http://s17.postimage.org/hago6nru7/DSCN2011.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/cd1b3flyp/DSCN2019.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/erxs1lrld/DSCN2022.jpg


That is what I was trying to get across with "raise the rifle" and "point the left knee at the target...."

Head is close to vertical, and eye close(r) to the rear sight.
Your body is not twisted in order to keep the rifle in your shoulder.
(if your are twisted, your muscles will try to snap back to center (NPA) which will pull your shots)

Leaning slightly forward (pic2011) so the recoil does not push you too far backwards (that is, knock you off balance)

You can get away with it with a 22, but ... shoot a 308 in rapid sitting - if you are sitting vertical or leaning backwards - the 308 has enough recoil to literally roll you backwards so that your shoulderblade touches the ground - and yes, I know this through experience
Thank you aj98, with the pics provided of goof posturing behind the rifle, I can now see what it was you were trying to get across to me... I'm a fast leraner, but I'm just a little slow at it.
__________________
CMP Customer

WWG1WGA
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:26 PM
bigbird bigbird is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Posts: 1,396
Default

Dragon posted:
I'm a fast leraner, but I'm just a little slow at it.

Dragon, as a good Southern man, I must remind you not to apologize for being slow because, we Southerners take pride in being slow by design.

We learn, we move, we eat and we talk slowly, all on purpose. Just to aggravate folks from other parts of the country.

Have a good Memorial Day

Jim

ps: Thanks aj98 for your compliment. I was about to think that I couldn't do anything right anymore. I am getting old (almost 67), can't see worth a dern and got pains all over that I can't explain............. Getting older is hell.

Last edited by bigbird; 05-25-2012 at 10:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:00 PM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbird View Post
Dragon posted:
I'm a fast leraner, but I'm just a little slow at it.

Dragon, as a good Southern man, I must remind you not to apologize for being slow because, we Southerners take pride in being slow by design.

We learn, we move, we eat and we talk slowly, all on purpose. Just to aggravate folks from other parts of the country.

Have a good Memorial Day

Jim

ps: Thanks aj98 for your compliment. I was about to think that I couldn't do anything right anymore. I am getting old (almost 67), can't see worth a dern and got pains all over that I can't explain............. Getting older is hell.
Amen to that...

I may have had a EUREKA! moment. I was cleaning the rifle, and taking note of the condition of the rifling and the crown, when my wife walked up and asked what was wrong with the barrel... I said I was just cleaning it. She said no, the barrel is crooked. I shoo'd the silly little Southern Belle away so I could do man-work.

But she was right. It was mentioned to me earlier on a thread at Rimfire central, that something did not seem right about the way the barrel sat in the stock. I dismissed that, as I could slide a piece of paper between the barrel and the stock and run the paper all the way back to the bedding... I decided to take the rifle out of the stock and check the bedding. The bedding looked fine. And then I found a most serious issue. The very front screw used to hold on the lower accessorie rail was sticking into the barrel channel a good .25" Holy heck, how could I have missed it! The screw lined up with a rubbed mark on the barrel. I went through all of the screws in the lower accessorie rail, and sure enough, there was a shorter screw. I traded places with the screws, and the barrel and action all fit together nice and neat. I can now fit an index card between the barrel and the stock, and the barrel nestle's deeper into the stock like it should. "I'm on very important mission..." I'm headed to bed, with my alarm set for sunrise... I hope I have a ragged hole to report tomorrow. I'm posting this same statement over at Rimfire now...
__________________
CMP Customer

WWG1WGA

Last edited by DRAGON64; 05-25-2012 at 11:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:11 PM
aj98 aj98 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SE VA
Posts: 2,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbird View Post

ps: Thanks aj98 for your compliment. I was about to think that I couldn't do anything right anymore. I am getting old (almost 67), can't see worth a dern and got pains all over that I can't explain............. Getting older is hell.
Bigbird- you get extra credit for posting the pics - they are truly worth 1000 words

Last edited by aj98; 05-25-2012 at 11:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-26-2012, 05:35 AM
MLHSR MLHSR is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,349
Default

I'm the one that posted the barreled action was not seated correctly...I've owned, tore down, rebuilt enough of these 40x's I could see the action was at an angle. figured it was the bedding..never gave those rail screws a thought....lol..
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-26-2012, 09:19 AM
bigbird bigbird is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Posts: 1,396
Default

MLHSR;
I remember that you made that statement and I didn't think about those rail screws either.
But now that you and Dragon mentioned it I had to move those screws on my 40XB when I first assembled it.
(When I received it from the CMP it was disassembled in the box)

Last edited by bigbird; 05-26-2012 at 09:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-27-2012, 08:47 AM
DRAGON64 DRAGON64 is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLHSR View Post
I'm the one that posted the barreled action was not seated correctly...I've owned, tore down, rebuilt enough of these 40x's I could see the action was at an angle. figured it was the bedding..never gave those rail screws a thought....lol..
Good call, I never realized that the screws aere differents lengths... learned

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbird View Post
MLHSR;
I remember that you made that statement and I didn't think about those rail screws either.
But now that you and Dragon mentioned it I had to move those screws on my 40XB when I first assembled it.
(When I received it from the CMP it was disassembled in the box)
Here is the shooting that I could wait to do (yesterday) after finding and fixing the issue...

http://youtu.be/EVoZdKwNIoY

...still looking for a shooting expert and a solid mount bench.
__________________
CMP Customer

WWG1WGA
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-27-2012, 10:47 AM
eejit eejit is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 434
Default

I think the problem is the bench your shooting off of. In the video when you lay your cheek on the stock it looks that the whole gun is moving. And watching the movement of the end of the barrel on each shot would change point of impact on how hard the contact of your cheek to stock is. Try a better rest like sand bags and a bench with less movement. And get the gun lower to the bench.

Last edited by eejit; 05-27-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: another tip.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-27-2012, 11:00 AM
aj98 aj98 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SE VA
Posts: 2,650
Default

Dragon:

Much better

Do you find the new position/posture to be more comfortable that the "old" one?

As I tell each of my students: This sport is a lot of little things put together to make one big thing.

Here are a few more tweaks and/or points to consider. (those little things )


You need a solid base to work from.
One purpose of adjusting your body position is to acquire a comfortable, no muscle stress/strain position, so that your body and the rifle work together, not fight each other.

1: Get your right elbow down on the table.

With the elbow up in the air, your shoulder "floats" (moves) around a bit. Even with the rifle stand, that shoulder floating will move the butt of the rifle enough to cause the groups outside the 10 ring.

Slide the rifle stand forward enough to allow you to get your right elbow on the table.

When you do, a couple things will happen.
a) you will be forced to lean forward a bit.
b)when you lean forward, the rifle will then be too high

so

2: lower the rifle to suit the (now lower) height of your shoulder.
If you do not, you will have to stretch your neck to see throughout the rear sight.

That will also partial correct another potential issue, which is rifle "swaying" a bit in the stand (because of the high center of gravity, the comparatively thin bolts supporting the brackets in which the rifle rests, and the overall weight of the rifle.
(imagine a bowling ball on top of a fence post)

3: make sure the rifle is level, and you are not rotating/tilting it as you take aim.

Lacking a picture, I have to tell a story.
With my Savage .22 and a 4 spot 50 yard NRA target (5 shots per),

target 1: 3- 10s, 2-8s. (48pts)
target 2: 5-9s, high right (45 pts)
target 3: 1-10, 4-9, high right (46 its)
target 4: 2 X, 3-10s, hight right (50pts)
total: 189

shots within a scoring ring were touching, but note I am in 2 distinctly different places - center, or (always) high right.

You can't give up 10 points per target and make Sharpshooter in NRA Conventional Prone (which requires a consistent minimum of 193 pts per 4 spot target).

Even worse at 100 yards. Scores were closer to 180, with groups in the 9/8 ring.

Anyway,

I eventually realized the problem was caused by canting/tilting the rifle.
Now I consciously check and adjust for tilt /every/ shot. and I'm shooting 193-196 on those same 4 spot targets, at both 50 & 100 yards.

If you are shooting a ring aperture, does it look like this: --O-- ?

If so, use the horizontal bar as a pseudo level. Set 3 targets side by side. Aim at the center target. The horizontal bar on the front sight aperture should go through center of the left and right targets. If it does not, the rifle is canted, and the shot will likely not hit center.

If your front aperture is a ring sitting on a post, then set your targets vertical, aim at the top target, and make sure the vertical post supporting the ring goes through the center of the lower target

Check it every shot, and adjust if necessary.

(If you poke around the web for competition sights (or scopes) you will see some have bubble levels built in - now you know why )
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 AM.