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  #21  
Old 04-22-2021, 12:42 PM
Shomway Shomway is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
I believe most people don't know what SAAMI is either.
Here's some ammo from Midway (I figure they are as reasonable a seller as any), while there are not pics of all 6 sides of the box, the detailed description has no SAAMI, no CUP, just bullet weight and FPS.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1777318110

Of course if they were to list a wt and FPS the forums would explode just the same, if not worse.
Can anyone suggest a wording that would NOT generate controversy (rhetorical; please do not attempt!)?
CMP can't win on matters like these.

JH
And here is the problem. I have a box of FGMM 168gr 30.06 that only lists the velocity(2700) and energy on the box. There was a debate on another Forum about the use of this in a Garand and was told that it wasn't safe in a Garand because of the pressure. This was confirmed with a contact from Federal with the warning of oprod damage if used.
So here is a round that is under the CMP recommendation for bullet weight and yet the manufacturer does not recommend its use in a Garand. So if a person was ammo shopping and saw the bullet weight would think this would be safe.....when perhaps it's not. So what carries more weight as far as usage...bullet weight or CUP pressure???
I don't want to get in a debate about oprod damage
Was not going to shoot this in my Garand anyways.
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  #22  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:01 PM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Shomway View Post
And here is the problem. I have a box of FGMM 168gr 30.06 that only lists the velocity(2700) and energy on the box. There was a debate on another Forum about the use of this in a Garand and was told that it wasn't safe in a Garand because of the pressure. This was confirmed with a contact from Federal with the warning of oprod damage if used.
So here is a round that is under the CMP recommendation for bullet weight and yet the manufacturer does not recommend its use in a Garand. So if a person was ammo shopping and saw the bullet weight would think this would be safe.....when perhaps it's not. So what carries more weight as far as usage...bullet weight or CUP pressure???
I don't want to get in a debate about oprod damage
Was not going to shoot this in my Garand anyways.
And lets not forget...the 168gr FGMM was made FOR the garands back in the day when M72 was out of production and not as accurate....in the 80/90s FGMM was all over the shooting line at NRA matches etc.

Lots of confusion out there...
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  #23  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:06 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jeremy2171 View Post
However in THEIR they just stated that commercial ammo made to SAAMI specs IS fine.
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that?
But I do know CMP did not state that, and each of us is entrusted to interpret it, like any warning, explanation or instruction and apply to our situation as we see fit.

How about working with CMP offline to compose their ammo safety announcements and resolve the issue for everyone?

It's probably better than telling everyone what you think they meant but didn't say.

Just a thought :-)

JH
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  #24  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:09 PM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that?
But I do know CMP did not state that, and each of us is entrusted to interpret it, like any warning, explanation or instruction and apply to our situation as we see fit.

How about working with CMP offline to compose their ammo safety announcements and resolve the issue for everyone?

It's probably better than telling everyone what you think they meant but didn't say.

Just a thought :-)

JH
What is the max pressure for SAAMI? 50k CUP

CMP said NOT to shoot ammo ABOVE 50k CUP.

What do YOU think that means?
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  #25  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:36 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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So no?

Or "you answered a question I didn't ask".

If you have questions I am sure CMP would be happy to answer them should you choose to contact them and ask.
I'm sure they will accept applications for CMP notice writer should that position be open as well.
Best of luck sir; I'm done, just like the questions I asked in the last thread before it too was removed.

JH
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Last edited by ZvenoMan; 04-22-2021 at 02:59 PM.
  #26  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:51 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2171 View Post
What is the max pressure for SAAMI? 50k CUP

CMP said NOT to shoot ammo ABOVE 50k CUP.

What do YOU think that means?
Thank for the summary.
What I donít need is your guesses or interpretation of it.

YOU are then use that to make some conclusions that have no basis in truth.
You canít -accurately- then say that they then mean that ALL commercial 3006 ammunition is safe because it meets SAMMI specifications.
Because you have no proof of that, none.
And that is not what they said and itís not your place to then make some goofy conclusion like that.
Stop taking their statement and then attaching your ridiculous conclusions to it.
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  #27  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:59 PM
BobJ50 BobJ50 is offline
 
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I doubt if anything the CMP offers, one way or the other, will ever satisfy everyone.
My opinion, do whatever you want, I enjoy YouTube vids.
  #28  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:59 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2171 View Post
And lets not forget...the 168gr FGMM was made FOR the garands back in the day when M72 was out of production and not as accurate....in the 80/90s FGMM was all over the shooting line at NRA matches etc.

Lots of confusion out there...
Yes, your comments are confusing to say the least.
The 168 smk was made for the 300meter international competitions, it had nothing to do with the Garand.
It was never used by the Military in a 30-06 loading.
What it was used for was the 308 M852 load.

Now a lot of civilian shooters have realized what a great bullet Sierra makes and used ALOT of them, me included.

Please stop with this nonsense, you are making all sorts of statements that have no factual basis.
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  #29  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:45 PM
Fenris_Bane Fenris_Bane is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2171 View Post
The warning basically said any commercial ammo made to SAAMI spec is fine.

Milsurp is fine as well.
Partially wrong. The CMP did NOT say "any commercial ammo". You are making an overly broad statement.

The CMP said the following:
"These rifles are at least 70 years old and were not designed for max loads and super heavy bullets." The CMP also warns about bullet weight. Some modern commercial ammo have bullet weights at 180 grains and some have high velocities. This e-mail mirrors the advice given in the InRange video you dismissed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_F1riBth8&t=452s

(Adjustable gas plug)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe3rrlJsEz0

What is the "max load"? Is it 50,000 CUP? Regardless, this second statement clearly states they were NOT designed for max loads. So if 50,000 cup is the "max load", it is by no means the optimal load nor the desired load.

So the Technical Manual may be correct in stating 50,000 psi, which is well below the 60,000+ PSI that 50,000 CUP generates.

Why push the maximum pressures? There is no need to. It also leads to people blowing up firearms when the is a problem with their manufacturing. As I showed before, Herter's brand .308 sold commercially by Cabella's was not safe to shoot and was extremely overpressure.

Just because it is commercial manufacture, does not automatically mean safe.
  #30  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:57 PM
Fenris_Bane Fenris_Bane is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shomway View Post
Quick question, is commercial ammo suppose to have the "CUP" rating/level on the box?
Since CMP mentions this in their warning(along with bullet weight) how is a person to know the "CUP" if not stated on the box?
I have checked several of the boxes my commercial ammo came in. NONE have CUP or PSI listed on them. This includes 30-06, 308, 45 ACP, 9mm Luger & 22 Winchester automatic. So it does not appear that the CUP/PSI rating is required on the packaging.

They show bullet weight. Bullet type/style. Bullet velocities. And/or ft/lbs of impact force.

The 30-06 Creedmore ammunition sold by the CMP only shows the velocity (2810 ft/s) and the bullet weight (150 gr.).
My Winchester 30-06 Garand ammunition only shows the velocity (2740 ft/s) and the muzzle energy (2,501 ft/lbs).

Last edited by Fenris_Bane; 04-22-2021 at 04:00 PM.
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