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  #21  
Old 01-28-2020, 12:24 PM
austintexas austintexas is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 119
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Over the years I have picked up 2 unmolested Inland carbines. They were not sold to me as original, Picked up one in a Pawnshop covered with closet dust and the second at a gunshow with a bunch of hunting rifles. It had an original German K98 sling on it. The seller had no idea what it was or what it was worth, I think someone inherited it and took it straight to the show to turn it into cash. As late as '68 I was still qualified with a carbine in the AF. Never saw a m-16 until I arrived at Phu-Cat May 1968. I think lots of carbines were just stored after the war and forgotten about and after the m-16 came out they didn't bother upgrading them.
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2020, 12:38 PM
6 Ring 6 Ring is offline
 
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Location: South of Atlanta, Ga
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Riesch's book is a cheap first step, however it lists serial number ranges for part types that are off 50,000 or more up or down. Some of his serial number ranges are off more.
As a general rule, he is close with his part markings, but he does not include the known parts transferred found in "War Baby". Using Riesch is a easy way to turn an original carbine into a restoration. I know, I have done it several times.
And when the contracts were cancelled, many of the eight carbine manufacturers as well and a hundred subcontractors could have sent parts to Inland or Winchester than be stuck with them. There is little documentation for this mad rush to re-cope some costs for their parts made. Many of the subcontractors were small business and could not afford to be stuck with one to five thousand of a part.
One example is many 6.4-6.5 Winchester carbines can have an original NPM buttplate.
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  #23  
Old 01-28-2020, 08:07 PM
vagrant vagrant is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Good info. Reisch can only be used as a quick and dirty reference. You can't change parts according to Riesch. He never corrected all the known mistakes in later editions. The serialized layout of parts doesn't work for makes like certain blocks of NPM.

That said, all the makes pretty much have marked parts and they correlate to the maker. The odd parts that don't match are so insignificant that it's beyond ridiculous to pose that Carbines are a mish-mash.
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2020, 10:41 AM
TSimonetti TSimonetti is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Ring View Post
Riesch's book is a cheap first step, however it lists serial number ranges for part types that are off 50,000 or more up or down. Some of his serial number ranges are off more.
As a general rule, he is close with his part markings, but he does not include the known parts transferred found in "War Baby". Using Riesch is a easy way to turn an original carbine into a restoration. I know, I have done it several times.

Possibly one of the most damaging errors in the book is incorrectly listing the switch to Inland type 2 stocks at 400,000 which is off by at least 150,000.

New to collecting and restoring, I acquired a correct early 43 at a local gun show for $1,000. Upon getting it home, I was disappointed to find out that it had an "incorrect" type 2 stock according to Reisch it should have an I-cut stock. Later found out it was well into the type 2 stock range. To top it off, I sold the type 2 stock to fund the purchase of a I-cut I found on ebay.
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  #25  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:10 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Van Wert, Ohio
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When I was at the Archives this summer. I found a substantial amount of Navy serials of stolen weapons during WWII. There were thousands of serials in there.

This was only during WWII. I found stolen serials before and after the war. In fact a lot of them.

What I realized by seeing all these serials. A lot of us have stolen weapons in our safes.

Most of the time they didn't even investigate the loss. The Navy kept track of serials so they reported them. The Army and Marines didn't track serials as much as quantity, so they didn't even really report the serials. They just wrote the stuff off.

But if anyone says they didn't steal mass numbers of rifles and pistols, they are grossly mistaken.
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:58 PM
.Steve. .Steve. is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 839
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One thing that has confused me, not knowing much anyhow, is that some of the 200X CMP club sales era Carbines appeared to me to be original. Original in the sense of as originally assembled. And not re-built, but some marked as a check and test before going back into storage.

In the white bags or not, I saw some Winchesters that had an even smooth black finish I called DuLite on many/most of the parts and things like push button safeties and type 1&2 bands. Everything to my eyes had been together since the Winchester smooth black finish. Winchester receivers in Winchester stocks.

Another one was a complete Winchester build, to my eyes, but with the WTA receiver someone else made transferred to Winchester. Nothing was lined out or re-marked in any manner and for all appearances other than the WTA you woulda thought NPM or whoever assembled it. It had the smooth black finish also that made me look twice and see what the WTA meant.

Assembled is the word I use thinking about carbines. They were assembled outta what ever there was to assemble them with.

My carbine remains a Blue Sky Inland that had not Arlington Ordnance re-Parked the assembly with the distinctive medium grey Park that turns blackish with oil, you woulda thought it was an “original” Inland. It remains the most accurate one I ever shot. I keep trying to wear it out. Very nicely stamped Blue Sky on the barrel.

As any one who reads my posts knows, I don’t worry much about collecting and correcting, just do it run and how. But I still find the 200X guns from that era interesting. I think there was more mixed in there than is usually referenced. But what do I know?
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  #27  
Old 01-30-2020, 06:16 PM
carbineone carbineone is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Columbus NE
Posts: 2,149
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Heck there are probably about 4 Million "originals" left out there by now,LOL

Closest I ever came is a IBM that has the original rear flip sight from day one. But somehow received a Bayo upgrade. Barrel stock and internals very well could have been original too. But no way to know for sure. But the flip was as originally manufactured.
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  #28  
Old 01-31-2020, 12:56 AM
bandhunter31 bandhunter31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post
When I was at the Archives this summer. I found a substantial amount of Navy serials of stolen weapons during WWII. There were thousands of serials in there.

This was only during WWII. I found stolen serials before and after the war. In fact a lot of them.

What I realized by seeing all these serials. A lot of us have stolen weapons in our safes.

Most of the time they didn't even investigate the loss. The Navy kept track of serials so they reported them. The Army and Marines didn't track serials as much as quantity, so they didn't even really report the serials. They just wrote the stuff off.

But if anyone says they didn't steal mass numbers of rifles and pistols, they are grossly mistaken.
stop drinking the cool aide cplnorton....... plenty of guys here served in the military in the last 40 years will explain to you its IMPOSSIBLE to steal U.S. issues firearms and they meticulously track every gun!!!!...... .......obviously im kidding...... they were pushing planes off aircraft carriers after WWII and guys think they really cared about 1911's and M1 carbines in a time prior to any real form of gun control...... it amazes me how people just dismiss all the evidence in the archives in regards to stolen u.s. weapons......
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:20 AM
dnikkor dnikkor is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,770
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A third of my carbines are "original". Two are late war Inlands that, like Milsurp said, were never rebuilt. One is a hand stamp that looks brand new. I also have a Standard Products carbine with all the early features that was rode hard and put away wet. And I'm sure the Army is still looking for the guy who stuck it in his duffel bag after The War.
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:16 AM
vagrant vagrant is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 798
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1) Some people get put into the 'it never happened' camp when in reality they never said that.
2) Some people want to call any original Carbine a "bring-back".
2b) How about the original Carbines that never even left? Bring back is a parrot saying.

However, an old gent told me about his uncle or father in WWII in a foreign country wherein everybody was stuffing their bags full of take home things when going home. Some NCO was preaching to them about not doing it because they're going to unload everything while on board the ship so you go straight to lockup when you dock instead of going home. Everybody turned in all their stuff before boarding. Not one of them was checked at any point even while on board. They all could've gotten away with it, so some obviously did.
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