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  #21  
Old 03-06-2021, 01:21 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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I have seen a few accounts of LN 1903s that failed recently (last few decades), maybe some with the 1st hand knowledge will post.
The thing is it's always related to the ammo. A squb load not noticed followed by another round, a ruptured case; while they can be attributed to "incorrect" shooting they can also happen to the best of us with the best ammo.
I have had (to my knowledge) 2 ruptured cases and 0 squibs in my shooting career.
Separately, I also got a "bad" lot of .303 ammo, after a few entertaining (and each was different) rounds I tossed the lot. I'm sure some would suck it up and drive on.
Excluding rimfire probably 70% of my shooting (by round count) is milsurps.
I expect >0 squib loads and >0 ruptured cases in my future.
But again, I manage risk for me; others are (and should be) different.

Does anyone make (or can one be made for a cost comparable to a new criterion $200 barrel) a .22 1903 barrel? I have a nice looking LN 1903 drill rifle and of course I need another project. That would be a fun money pit, and a respectful use of a fine rifle. It would be #27 in line......

JH
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2021, 04:45 PM
AJsun AJsun is offline
 
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The last incident about a 1903 receiver rupturing itís on, or use to be on web site years ago. It happened in Utah. If I recall and I just might be wrong, the shooter had just bought the 1903 not a Marine and it did not have the Hatcher hole. But it had a very low serial number. He was not using M2 150 gr ball. They commented on what he was using but I donít recall. Apparently the barrel was obstructed, by dirt and grease, apparently he had not cleaned it, story is he went straight to the range from where he purchased the 1903. In the Fortyís the 1903 was still going thru depot maintenance. And several of those suspected dual heat receivers were replaced, some gun rack queens were not and never seen a depot rebuild. Thatís when the warning went out. All issued 1903s in the Marine Corp were hatchered, to my knowledge. All this may be skittle butt,
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2021, 05:00 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJsun View Post
All issued 1903s in the Marine Corp were hatchered, to my knowledge. All this may be skittle butt,
Only the ones rebuilt by the Marines after the fall of 1938 had the modification, so if a rifle never went in for rebuild after late 1938, it would not have it.

The Army started it on rebuilds in 1937, but only the rifles rebuilt at Springfield Armory.

The Navy rebuilds are anyone's guess. They had two main rebuild depots and rebuilt a lot of M1903's, but we know really nothing on what those rebuilds looked like.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2021, 05:21 PM
AJsun AJsun is offline
 
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Hey CPL N I thought the Julian Hatcher was a ?Captain in the Marines assigned to MC recruit depot San Diego. And the Marines at that facility modified the Hole to escape night gasses? Another LtCol was also involved, is that right?
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2021, 05:43 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJsun View Post
Hey CPL N I thought the Julian Hatcher was a ?Captain in the Marines assigned to MC recruit depot San Diego. And the Marines at that facility modified the Hole to escape night gasses? Another LtCol was also involved, is that right?

Julian Hatcher was actually Army. He is mostly known today for the book he wrote and he was an editor at American Rifleman magazine. At some point he was mistakenly given credit for that additional gas escape hole and the coined "Hatcher Hole" just has stuck. He was also the Chief of Ordnance during WWII.

But the additional gas escape hole was not his work or had anything to do with him. It was first tested as a smaller hole around 1930 at Springfield Armory by civilian named Woodworth. But this never caught on.

It was again tested about Dec 1936 at SA by a LtCol Borden who was a Director of Research and his work was approved by a Col Smith who was titled Ordnance Dept Commanding. This is the hole as we know it today and the testing was first implemented in the new 1937 NM rifles, followed by the rebuilds in 1937 done at SA.

Julian Hatcher I forget where he was at this time in his career, but he wasn't anywhere near SA or this testing. I want to say he was in charge of a military academy or school if I remember right. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I just forget honestly. It's been years since I researched him.

The Marines actually sent a representative to Springfield Armory in 1938 to learn how to do the modification to their own rifles. The Army had been doing it for about a year at this point. The Marine, I forget his name offhand and didn't go back to look, learned how to do it at SA and took it back to the Philly Depot to implement it in the fall of 1938. The Marines bought all the tooling and fixtures to drill the additional gas escape hole and enlarge the gas hole in the bolts directly from the Army and SA.

The funniest thing is, the additional gas escape hole is mostly know as a Marine modification, but the Army actually taught them how to do it, and the Army drilled far more of them than the Marines ever did.

Last edited by cplnorton; 03-08-2021 at 05:45 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2021, 05:55 PM
Capt.Tom Capt.Tom is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeIronHand View Post
Speaking of random reading...
Think I also read somewhere that the USMC tested LNís in their possession and if it passed they put a punch divot on the receiver in front of the serial number?
Whew. I have forgotten way more then I currently know.
Wheres JB when you need him?
Not just low number receivers.

https://i.imgur.com/R1kGu91.jpg
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2021, 06:01 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Tom View Post
Not just low number receivers.

https://i.imgur.com/R1kGu91.jpg
You are 100% right. The Marines did it on all receivers high and low. Becsuse they found many of the high numbers were just as brittle as the low numbers

So don't assume just bc its an high number its automatically safe
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  #28  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:15 PM
Firstflabn Firstflabn is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post
He was also the Chief of Ordnance during WWII.
Rare correction for you, Steve. Hatcher was for a time chief of the Field Service Division of the OD during WWII (his highest post), not head of the department. FSD was primarily tasked with storage and issuance - IOW, warehouse activities.

Another of FSD's jobs was document control, hence many documents were issued under his signature as a management function unrelated to technical matters covered therein.

MG Levin H. Campbell, Jr. was COO '42-'45.

I'll write the date on the wall so if you ever make another boo boo, I can see how much time has passed in between.
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  #29  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:45 AM
AJsun AJsun is offline
 
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All this is really interesting, thanks to all you Troopers for your posts, I became a Life Member in the ?Confederate Airforce, and spent 30 years, mostly my connection was with the Stinson L-5, met Many Troopers from the greatest generation, bunch of Guys. Several Marines, Most regarded the 1903 as the greatest, unlike Pattonís impression of the Garand. Many Marines felt it waisted Ammo, to them the 1903 every shot counted, and didnít waist Ammo! Many of there impressions and recollections differ, not by allot but itís still very interesting to me. First time I hear the Naval yard in FILLY DID THE Hatcher mod. I always knew it took very specialized tooling to drill the receiver. And several Marines felt the dual heat treat was nothing but skittle Butt. Effected by sun lite entering the building. Itís history, and I really donít think we will ever hear the rest of the story!
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  #30  
Old 03-09-2021, 08:15 AM
RHScott RHScott is offline
 
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Iím going to guess they must have been pre WW2 Marines or did not face hordes of Chinese.
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