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  #51  
Old 10-20-2021, 10:21 AM
TSimonetti TSimonetti is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
What in the descriptions was altered?
Many people have said it occurred, what words were added/removed?

I’ll update my chart (see the thread I started on “grades”) with info if I can verify it.

CMP’s reputation for customer service is well known. So far I have seen people making many complaints but strangely no one seems to be doing anything about it.
If I received a rifle not meeting grade description I would simply contact CMP and I am confident they would make it right as history suggests.
I’m not comfortable being a victim, especially when $750 of my discretionary money is at stake.

It’s an interesting trend on this forum the last few weeks.
Jh
Jh
I saw it repeated a couple of times that the description was changed. I never dug any deeper, just assumed the assertions were accurate.

Good points all.
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  #52  
Old 10-20-2021, 11:17 AM
UtahM1Garand UtahM1Garand is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Utah
Posts: 79
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That’s the disadvantage of not having access to what the website criteria WAS before,
but enough of us have recognized that some verbiage was changed or deleted.

If I recall, and I could be wrong, but “below the wood line” has been deleted from the SG description of the line “ May have some visible pitting, frosting, or other minor cosmetic deformity on the metal parts.” Also barrel number accepted readings in the FG category have been increased. Not pertinent to the SG category but it does show that verbiage has changed.

But besides changes to the verbiage, what does the first line of SG criteria say?

“Service Grade Rifles WILL show less wear and a better cosmetic appearance than a Field or Rack Grade.“

Not “may”, not “could”, not “if you’re lucky” but WILL.

First line of the description.

Usually items are listed in order of priority. I think this is an example of that. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this is the first line...
If the only grading criteria that mattered were barrel readings, they would list that first. And if that were true as well, wouldn’t they just say, “SGs will be everything in the FG category but with better barrel readings”?

Some of these “SG” rated rifles sent out OBVIOUSLY show as much or more wear, and have a WORSE appearance than FGs or RGs.

It’s the first impression you get of a rifle, appearance.
And as we’ve all been taught, you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Last edited by UtahM1Garand; 10-20-2021 at 11:26 AM.
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  #53  
Old 10-20-2021, 11:35 AM
Tommy1165 Tommy1165 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Florida
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I agree with Utah.
Having been a CMP customer for 20 plus years, I have seen the description change a few times.
We are lucky to have received the recent batch of Philippine arrive, but some of the horrors people have received based on current conditions is more than a few.
Yes, people make mistakes and CMP always puts forth great effort to maintain satisfaction and does a superb job of that.
The Orest days are long gone. My next purchase will be a road trip to the
South store and hand pick. Unfortunately, it is what it is.
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2021, 11:40 AM
RandyP RandyP is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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There is also the reality that the 1943 (68yr old) Garand in 2011, is now a 78 yr old rifle in 2021. IF you want a true piece of history (sort of), your options ARE rather limited, especially when you can get one from the CMP at such a VERY-VERY low price. Price one at a gun show or an auction site sometime and have your heart meds handy - lol
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  #55  
Old 10-20-2021, 01:00 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: BHM AL
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Have the barrel numbers changed in the descriptions? Best I can tell, no.

Yet no one can tell what else has changed?
Seems to me that if I was disappointed with my new-to-me Garand, and complaining about the change in grade description, I'd take SOME effort to validate that the description changed, and then determine if that change had any impact on what I received.

But that's just me.

As discussed on this forum MANY times, the numbers are deceiving.
Last I heard the forum represents less than 3% of the current (as in ordered in the past 12-24 months if I recall) customer base.
Not all active forum members post what they receive.
Typically the "great looking (top half of the grade description) Garands get posted, and the lower half of that grade (yet fully within the grade description) don't get posted. Why? Because they are average, nothing special, and human nature being what it is, no need to post those as much.

Recently some dogs have been posted. Some are very clearly QC issues and in no way reflective of any specific grade, yet instead of adulting withy CMP Customer Service, they are posted, the flames are fanned and now the world as we know it is ending.
A basic knowledge of statistics will show that a useful prediction may not be made from this type of data.
However, a recent "poll" was posted (in no way is it useful for any real analysis; in fact I "voted" after pulling the below info and to be clear, I have NOT purchased a SG in the past "x" months!).
$1 posts, >1900 views and "only" 45 votes. Of those who "voted" (again, excluding me) only 33% were not satisfied with their service grade.
How many of them voted because they didn't like the pictures of what others received? How many didn't own a Garand? In spite of that, only 1/3 claim to be unhappy.

What are the chances that the "quality" of SGs is pretty much the same as 12 months ago, excluding specific QC issues that are EASILY remedied with an email to CMP? But people are posting these pics simply because they are aware of the falling sky so we are seeing more?

I will say that if you receive a rifle and it does not meet grade description, and instead of contacting CMP so they may correct it, add additional QC steps, retrain, whatever (just like any reasonable business would do), then you are creating the problem instead of adulting it away.
You receive a rifle with a broken part. It's reasonable to expect that a used, well worn, 65+ year old service rifle may have broken parts that, while "should" have been addressed, missed the many steps in CMP's process and made it to you. It has happened to me. Contacting CMP made the issue go away; my ego was not bruised and my backyard unicorn is still prancing around.

RandyP makes a pretty good (and painfully obvious) point as well.

JH
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  #56  
Old 10-20-2021, 01:06 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Location: BHM AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
I saw it repeated a couple of times that the description was changed. I never dug any deeper, just assumed the assertions were accurate.

Good points all.
In no way am I directing this to you, but that statement nails it.

I too heard that the descriptions changed. Not having an order in the queue I have no need to care.
A few Garands with rust are posted. The story spreads like wildfire.
Someone heard on the internet the CMP grades changed so that too spreads.

Some quality research has been done regarding this; here is one summary:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=369246417078339

JH
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  #57  
Old 10-20-2021, 01:20 PM
Fogtripper Fogtripper is offline
 
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Location: UT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLB View Post
Granted the pitting and rust put a whole new twist on a SG purchase. But many seem to imply everything was unicorns and rainbows before now. My mail order experience has always been a true crapshoot and I’ve easily been disappointed with half my luck of the draw buys. The dogs just don’t get the glamour shots or really any attention. In fact this is the first string of marginal or subpar rifle postings I’ve seen in 10 years.

I’m on the sidelines for any more Garands unless the opportunity to hand select comes around again.
No, not all unicorns and rainbows, but there used to be a rack grade offered. Those that put hands on a LOT of the rifles back in the day know quite well that when rack grades went away, the other grades slid downward.

There should not be a single "dog" graded as SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 56hotrod View Post
I wholeheartedly agree with all statements, especially the part about Orest. I miss the way he ran the CMP.
I remember chatting with him about why they trended to lowering grading than over grading, because it was a pain in the but to field the complaints and returns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epm729 View Post
Maybe If you stopped buying 4 or 5 at a clip the CMP would take the time and turn them into Specials.
Not criticizing but the supply has to run out sooner or later. Eddie
That is no excuse whatsoever for misgrading.

Last edited by Fogtripper; 10-20-2021 at 01:30 PM.
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  #58  
Old 10-20-2021, 01:33 PM
Fogtripper Fogtripper is offline
 
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Location: UT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahM1Garand View Post
That’s the disadvantage of not having access to what the website criteria WAS before,
but enough of us have recognized that some verbiage was changed or deleted.
https://archive.org/web/

https://web.archive.org/web/20200422...ice/m1-garand/

Quote:
SERVICE GRADE: (GOOD TO VERY GOOD)
Service Grade Rifles show less wear and better appearance than Field or Rack Grades. Good to very good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the parkerized finish. May have pitting on the metal parts. Wood will be either Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety and will be basically sound but may have minor hairline cracks, dings, scratches and gouges. Wood may not match in color or type of wood. Wood may be of new production but may be used and show signs of wear on Service Grade Garands. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections. The barrel crown may be nicked, but the muzzle will gauge “3 or less” and the throat erosion will gauge less than 5.

Manufacturer selection only guarantees the receiver was produced by the manufacturer listed. The barrel and the other parts may have been produced by other manufacturers.

Last edited by Fogtripper; 10-20-2021 at 01:35 PM.
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  #59  
Old 10-20-2021, 01:42 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Location: BHM AL
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Fogtripper, I made it easy!
https://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.p...5&postcount=14

JH
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  #60  
Old 10-20-2021, 08:35 PM
Sheeple Fighter Sheeple Fighter is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MN (central)
Posts: 999
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I have not ordered anything in a few years. After the last batch off re-parked receivers, new barrels and CMP wood, I stopped. What I have done is just pay a few more bucks off the forum here for what I want. It is too much of a PITA to sell for cost something I don’t want. There have been some good ones, but far too many dogs and turds lately. Like others have said they need to just be selling at fields or racks. Save up enough “real” service grades and do a limited release like they did with the Winchesters and IHCs.
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