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Old 12-18-2021, 03:53 PM
35 Whelen 35 Whelen is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 262

Originally Posted by 6 Ring View Post
It is sure hard to tell someone who has lived a lifetime or two, that there is something they don't know. Commercial carbines are unsafe. True, maybe not all but why take the chance. You may have lucked out and got a "safe" one. And being "safe" has nothing to do with it firing or not.
Before I am told that I am stuck up, etc., please read the above referenced book.
Comments from anyone who has not read that book are un-informed and mean nothing.
I am only trying to save someones' eyes or fingers. If you hard tails want to shoot one, that's fine, but be informed is all I ask. And never let a child shoot a commercial carbine. They don't know any better.
Yep, these discussions typically take the course of "....well I'm only saying this because I'm trying to keep you from hurting yourself." Well, thanks.

How long someone has been around isn't necessarily proportional with their knowledge. I have not shot just one commercial carbine, but a total of four so far, two of which I still own. The two of them have had exponentially more rounds fired through them, and therefore much more opportunity to malfunction, than any of my USGI carbines. So can you maybe see that on which I base my opinion? If I'm understanding you, you're basing your opinion on your time on earth and books....? Or have you had first-hand negative experiences with multiple commercial models?

I collect Colt revolvers and reproductions thereof, as well as '73 Winchester's and reproductions of those. The same discussions arise from time to time on forums. If a revolver doesn't have the rampant Colt stamped on it, then it's a foregone conclusion that it isn't of as high of quality as an original Colt. If the Winchester logo isn't stamped on the lever rifle, then it's assumed to be of lesser quality. I've found neither assertion to be true. The common element of these discussions is that the experts can glance at a serial number and tell you what year the firearm was made, and detail the tiny nuances that occurred from generation to generation. But, they are almost always collectors, and not shooters.

So, using logic present in this discussion, I suppose I could accurately state:
Comments from anyone who has not read that book fired multiple commercial carbines are un-informed and mean nothing.
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Old 12-18-2021, 05:08 PM
6 Ring 6 Ring is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 3,746

I said not "safe", I did not say they would not fire.
I cannot find my copy since we moved. I just ordered another copy, $ 35.00. There is a section were Jerry checks the receiver safety bridge. If I remember correctly he states, none of the commercial carbines he checked had the correct dimension and the firing pin would pop a primer before the bolt was fully closed.
My Uncle had a Universal, I shot growing up.
I have owned at least three commercial carbines, IAI, SAI, Rock Island Armory. They all shot but I never checked the safety bridge and there was never had a problem. Of course at the time, I did not know any better. I was surprised by Jerry's findings because I did not know there was a safety bridge built in the receiver or what it was for.

Am I wasting my time or are there some out there who are starting to understand?

Last edited by 6 Ring; 12-18-2021 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 12-18-2021, 05:32 PM
TLB TLB is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,511

I have Jerry’s service rifle manual but not the carbine volume, so I can’t check references. But I do recall discussions about the safety bridge. Honest question: the book is a bit old—did he ever look at the AO and recent Inland offerings? I only ask because I thought at one time AO purported that their receivers were faithful machinists copies of Saginaw receivers and Inland advertised they were true copies of their namesake. That could just be marketing blather or they could be different than what Jerry examined and reported on.
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Old 12-18-2021, 05:39 PM
6 Ring 6 Ring is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 3,746

Agreed, I think AO and Inland carbines have been made since he wrote his book.
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Old 12-18-2021, 07:03 PM
bonnie bonnie is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 160

In Kuhnhausens' book page 81, " In some early commercial receivers, bridge surface locations were found to be mislocated by as much as .120". Bridge surfaces in these fail to contact (and arrest) firing pins." Further says "that over half the commercial receivers checked to date have tested below min. ordnance spec" concerning receiver hardness.

He does not name the specific commercial manufacturer or manufacturers

Last edited by bonnie; 12-18-2021 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 12-18-2021, 11:21 PM
mtn71 mtn71 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 203

My following comments are not directed at anyone in particular, and are meant in a positive way, no offense intended.

There are ways of saying something that will get your point across effectively, and ways of saying the same thing that will just start a fight. Some people with strong opinions will condescend, generalize, and look down their noses at the uninformed masses too stupid to know better. That’s a completely ineffective way to get any legitimate information across.

On the other hand, there are some genuinely lousy wannabe carbines out there. Nowadays it’s pretty easy to do some research online and learn what to avoid, what to watch out for, and how to spot damage that would make an otherwise good gun dangerous. The fact is that some of them ARE bad, but by NO means all of them.

Several years ago a forum heavy here berated me for merely questioning his glorious wisdom that my buddy should destroy his Universal carbine. Did he influence me or just make me mad? Yeah, I ignored him because he came across as a jerk. I challenged his authority in a small way and he lashed out at me.

What did influence me was searching and reading up on the issue, resulting in my friend taking his rifle to a gunsmith who determined that it wouldn’t fire out of battery.

All this talk about carbines has me considering buying another. I just have the one that I’ve had since the late ‘80s, but my kids really like shooting it, so another wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Locally I’ve seen a Plainfield for $1000 (no thanks), an Iver Johnson for $700 (no thanks), and a WWII Inland for $1100 - seems like a lot but I’d consider it before the other two. I have a job and four kids to keep up with, so I don’t have the time to scout out all the gun shows and shops in the state for the best deal.

I’d consider a commercial carbine if it was a really good bargain, but only after close inspection and some research about any known issues with that model. Otherwise I’d far and away rather spend the extra on a USGI model, after close inspection of course. That’s just me though, to each their own.

Last edited by mtn71; 12-18-2021 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 12-19-2021, 01:49 AM
Trepang Trepang is offline
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Calvert County, MD
Posts: 114

Deleted...Done with this.

Love my AO Carbine.
Love my USGI Carbines.
Love my Fulton Armory Carbine which doesn't neatly fall into either category.

Last edited by Trepang; 12-19-2021 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 12-19-2021, 02:29 AM
mtn71 mtn71 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 203

I just looked them up- I’d love to have a Fulton Armory carbine!

(It looks like they’re a little out of my price range though).
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