Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > CMP Bolt Action Rifles
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 05-16-2021, 07:44 AM
2761377 2761377 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: the V ring
Posts: 389
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstflabn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitpusmc
http://lonesentry.com/unithistory/23...try/index.html

Unit History published in the ETO said June 8th, 1944 so technically D+2 but pretty close.

“On 16 April, 1944, the Regiment sailed to South Wales, where final preparations for the invasion were completed, including moving to staging areas at various British Channel ports.

On 8 June, 1944, the Twenty Third Infantry landed on Omaha Beach with the first invasion forces.”


So, pretty tough for a regiment that was officially reported as landing on June 8 to find itself on the beach in a photo dated June 7, wouldn't you say (technically, of course)? The International Dateline is almost 180 degrees of longitude away, so I don't think that could explain it.
have you ever considered the photo may be mis-dated? cameras in those days did not automatically date every photo, like your phone does.

and what's your point, anyway?
__________________
CMP customer # 087287



ID is not my rifle's s/n
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-17-2021, 07:26 PM
JT76 JT76 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 88
Default

My neighbor growing up was an engineer who spent a lot of his time clearing mines in the Normandy campaign. He was armed with a 1903A3.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-17-2021, 09:04 PM
Firstflabn Firstflabn is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 816
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
have you ever considered the photo may be mis-dated? cameras in those days did not automatically date every photo, like your phone does.

and what's your point, anyway?

I thought the point was fairly obvious - even before being clearly made - a June 7 date precludes those GIs being from the 23rd (ref Whit's useful post that cured some of the date misinformation presented by others).

But the photo date is merely a tool to get at the main issue, not the issue itself. The initial mention of (a version of) the Fuller story, raised by our misinformed poster and unsupported thus far in this thread, is that the photo shows GIs of the 23rd Infantry (rather than from any of the 2nd's numerous other organic elements). You seem to also endorse the story, so what is the evidence? Absent evidence, the odds based on numbers alone are almost 4:1 against.

I'm always curious about how people think, not just what they think. Hope you're not edging towards OJ jury territory, but, rather, wish to have a discussion based on facts and reasonable inferences.

If you wish to doubt the date (and have more to offer than 'may be misstated'), then I suppose it could be anytime shortly after June 6. The division residue continued to land through (trusting memory here) June 12 or so. But again, that's not the issue. If the date was found to be crazy wrong, it wouldn't help establish those guys were from the 23rd.

Nice to have someone to torture the details with.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-18-2021, 07:40 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Saigon, RVN
Posts: 3,080
Default

So, its not substantiated a Battalion, or Regiment or Division was armed with 03's because its senior leadership refused the M1 Garand for its troops for the invasion of Europe.

Is this the bottom line ? I always thought that was internet myth
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-18-2021, 03:26 PM
2761377 2761377 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: the V ring
Posts: 389
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
So, its not substantiated a Battalion, or Regiment or Division was armed with 03's because its senior leadership refused the M1 Garand for its troops for the invasion of Europe.

Is this the bottom line ? I always thought that was internet myth
no, it's not an internet myth.
__________________
CMP customer # 087287



ID is not my rifle's s/n
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-18-2021, 03:43 PM
2761377 2761377 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: the V ring
Posts: 389
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstflabn View Post
I thought the point was fairly obvious - even before being clearly made - a June 7 date precludes those GIs being from the 23rd (ref Whit's useful post that cured some of the date misinformation presented by others).

But the photo date is merely a tool to get at the main issue, not the issue itself. The initial mention of (a version of) the Fuller story, raised by our misinformed poster and unsupported thus far in this thread, is that the photo shows GIs of the 23rd Infantry (rather than from any of the 2nd's numerous other organic elements). You seem to also endorse the story, so what is the evidence? Absent evidence, the odds based on numbers alone are almost 4:1 against.

I'm always curious about how people think, not just what they think. Hope you're not edging towards OJ jury territory, but, rather, wish to have a discussion based on facts and reasonable inferences.

If you wish to doubt the date (and have more to offer than 'may be misstated'), then I suppose it could be anytime shortly after June 6. The division residue continued to land through (trusting memory here) June 12 or so. But again, that's not the issue. If the date was found to be crazy wrong, it wouldn't help establish those guys were from the 23rd.

Nice to have someone to torture the details with.
That's all very nice but I'm still unclear on your position re this threads' title.

My position is clear- usage of the M1903 in frontline U.S. Army infantry units was slim to none after the fall of Bataan. And even there it is well supported that the 31st Infantry was armed with Garands.

Regarding the 23rd Infantry. As a historian, I read all sorts of non-fiction for enjoyment. John C. McManus published a book called Alamo in the Ardennes in 2007. I invite you to research his credentials; they're impressive.

Did you know Fuller was rehabilitated after his relief? Troy Middleton found him a regiment in the 28th Inf Div. The 110th. The regiment the Germans smashed along Skyline ridge in December 1944. Fuller was captured.

McManus jumps right into Fuller's history. Page 2 he relates the M1903 story. His copious notes for this chapter include a reference to Nineteen Days in June, 1944 by Henry Grady Spencer. Spencer was a battalion commander in the 23rd at the time.

Let me know if this scholarly research is not up to your standards.
__________________
CMP customer # 087287



ID is not my rifle's s/n
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:08 AM
Rolling Thunder Rolling Thunder is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,077
Default

Added Trivia FWIW:



__________________

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:40 AM
Rick the Librarian Rick the Librarian is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NW Washington State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
Added Trivia FWIW:



I think we're on the same page, there...
__________________
"We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."
--C.S. Lewis
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-20-2021, 12:26 PM
gnoahhh gnoahhh is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 24
Default

An old friend was an Artificer in the Army '42-'45. He always chuckled over the anecdotes he liked to tell of his unit's time in Northern Ireland circa 1943. It seems that while there, they were issued M1's for the first time, and Barney, since he was their artificer, was given the job of prepping the '03's for shipment home. He said they left them all crated up on a loading dock for early morning pickup by the shippers. Morning came and the rifles were all gone. They figured the IRA got them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 AM.