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  #1  
Old 06-21-2021, 04:30 PM
mycanoe44 mycanoe44 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southern MN, Owatonna
Posts: 432
Default Early RVN M14 Sniper clone

As close as I could get:





I had the cheek riser laying around, lines up perfectly.



I used an ART II mount I got from a member here. Not sure what they would have used early on. Probably something field modified, although it does look similar to the picture.









Annual highschool buddy fishing trip up north last week, put 60 rounds thru her shooting bowling pins, etc. 1943 CMP RR 1911 knocked em right over also.
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2021, 05:21 PM
nf1e nf1e is offline
 
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Very nice.
One to be proud of for sure.
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2021, 01:40 AM
1563621 1563621 is offline
 
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Very Nice!
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2021, 06:43 AM
Random Guy Random Guy is offline
 
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Looks nice, thanks for the pics. As a student of sorts regarding early M14 sniper rifles, here's two clarifications re this sentence:

Quote:
I used an ART II mount I got from a member here. Not sure what they would have used early on. Probably something field modified, although it does look similar to the picture.
Your mount is actually the 'AR TEL' mount from the 1969-1970 era, not the later 'ART II' mount which came out in 1981 or so and used two mounting screws instead of one. In addition, the scope mount seen in the vintage picture is what is referred to by collector's as the 'AWC' (Army Weapons Command) mount. They were developed stateside in 1966-67 under an urgent request for an M14 sniper rifle (I think at Rock Island Arsenal) and subsequently sent to Vietnam w/ M84 scopes in the spring 1967 period. Apparently another batch of rifles was sent to the 101st Airborne in early 1969 as well. It appears that around 500 of the AWC mounts were made in that era, and both a 'large knob' and smaller 'slot head' knob were used. Here's the later style:



They used the old G&H M1C mount to hold the M84 scope. The XM-21 rifle didn't go into service until late 1969. Best book on this topic is Peter Senich's 'The Long-Range War' (1994).
A small number of National Match M14s with the AWC/M84 set-up were built at Rock Island sent to Vietnam in March 1967, as noted here in Senich's book (this is the 'large knob' version):



The downside to the AWC mount (other than the underpowered 2.2x M84 scope) is that the scope was off-set to the left and too high as well. Many if not most of the pics from Vietnam with the AWC set-up showed the soldier using the leather cheek pad from the M1C/M1D that compensates for the off-set cheek weld to the left. Here's a well-worn example of what is often seen in vintage pics. (Note: The small mounting bolt seen here is actually the stainless Allen head bolt used with the unique scope bracket used to hold the Vietnam era AN/PVS-2 night vision scope):



The use of the AR TEL scope mount placed the scope over the bore, so the cheek weld wasn't as awkward, and the use of the leather pad on your rifle makes good sense and looks good too.

Here's my 3 replica's in chronological order: bottom is the replica 'improvised M14 Vietnam era' sniper with the AWC scope mount + M84 scope, middle is the XM-21 replica with the AR TEL scope and the same mount you have, and top is a replica of 1980s' era M21 with the ART II scope & ART II mount (note the 2 mounting screws).



Anyhow, nice job with your replica.

Last edited by Random Guy; 06-22-2021 at 08:36 AM.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2021, 02:49 PM
mycanoe44 mycanoe44 is offline
 
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Location: Southern MN, Owatonna
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Random Guy,

Thanks for the info and pics!! You are right, itís the AR TEL mount. I like it because itís centered over the bore and as low as possible. Brass does bounce off it but doesnít seem to affect anything other than a case ends up laying on top of the op rod handle every so often. I need to get it to the range and do some accuracy testing. As you know the mount is spring loaded and you can lift the rear of the scope. It doesnít seem to be an issue, but range work will tell.

You have to wonder if there were some very early field fabricated mounts. Look at Carlos Hathcock mounting a scope on a M2 50 cal. Those early SF guys were pretty resourceful and could purchase civilian or foreign equipment. Although with that being the case they certainly could have come up with a better scope than the M84. It does work better than I expected though. Need to get it on the 200 yard range and see.
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2021, 04:15 PM
Random Guy Random Guy is offline
 
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Yes, in the 1965-1967 period before the arrival of the AWC mount and later XM21 rifles, a few ad hoc scopes were mounted on M14 rifles before the AWC mount came out. Two such early sniper M14 rifles are seen in Senich book, and include a rifle with a cheap 3-9X scope and fabricated mount that required the removal of the rear sight, and a USMC armorer who actually mounted a longish 10X Unertl Varmiter on an M14 with a fabricated scope bracket. Its in the back of a Senich book:


Last edited by Random Guy; 06-22-2021 at 04:18 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2021, 08:53 AM
TW56 TW56 is offline
 
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James River heel re-weld?
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2021, 01:13 PM
mycanoe44 mycanoe44 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TW56 View Post
James River heel re-weld?

The last one they did I think
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