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  #41  
Old 10-04-2022, 11:02 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapriester View Post
The only criteria to determine a worn out barrel is how it measures with accurate gauges and whether it continues to shoot accurately. Accurately means 2-4 MOA with few flyers. If it does, the number of rounds put through it are irrelevant. Nobody, not even GCA, can accurately determine 10k rounds means a worn out barrel that needs replacement. Whoever may have written that there should stick with facts not speculation.

Many would tell you that the TE and MW can increase 1+ numhers for each 1000 rounds fired. From personal experience with my own match Garand I can tell you that's total BS. I have about 3k through the 65 SA barrel on my match IHC that started it's new life at 1.0 MW, 1.5 TE. It now measures well below 1.5 MW and below 2 TE with no noticeable decrease in accuracy.

Now, there's no doubt that if you constantly load hot with M2 ball bullets, then rapid fire and rapid reload you will see more wear. That's why, during the war, they needed field arsenal rebuild centers to repair and rebarrel rifles.

Another notable fact is that many brand spanking new SA barrels measure 2 or 2+ right out of the wrap.

Before you get too critical here..........I'd look at their articles about this.
IIRC, and I could be wrong, but they actually shot the 10,000rds in rifles to then post the results.

Their findings maybe far more accurate than you simply dismissing them out of hand.
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  #42  
Old 10-04-2022, 12:18 PM
jimthompson502002 jimthompson502002 is offline
 
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Would that there were some kind of hard, cold objective answer. But there isn't.

Back when I could still afford Colt Single Actions, Lugers, M1's, and some fairly rare Mausers, I got in the HABIT of preservation of the most perishable parts of my "babies". Back then I had a running deal with superb 'smiths ( some have retired, some have died, one just retired) because I shot almost every day, and a LOT.

With Lugers, I'd remove authentic, original grips, replace them with repros, and on one particular 6" M1906 Naval and a very similar custom Krieghoff, I also replaced the barrels with some of the stash of Austrian tubes I'd gotten for peanuts long before. Back then had all three popular lengths, a few "short/fat" commercials in 7.65, and so on, all brand new. Got in the habit of having my 'smith number them to the receiver but NOT IN THE ORIGINAL STYLE. This allowed me to burn ammo at prodigious rates and if called upon to cull out the dollar value--divorce, surgery, deaths in the family, new vehicles--I could either sell them with "all the stuff, original and replacement", or revert to original status. This became important early with the single actions. I did wear out quite a number of replacement barrels in all those platforms and many more obscure types.

There were several folks I ran across whose rifles I photographed back in the eighties and nineties who owned very few M1's but had swapped out the parts they felt were most "perishable". One had a clone stock created by a 'smith with the same stampings, but a Fajen that was glass bedded. He also replaced a very uncommon operating rod with the postwar D35382, shot it with a barrel I got for him. And he shot it quite a bit every weekend. He documented all this and made sure his heirs inherited it in such a fashion as to glean what he was doing That's another matter: if you do this and have heirs, leave tracks!!

With M1's it was less complicated because it's all much easier to SEE. I shot very few rounds in my lengthy associations with Mister Garand's brain child out of rifles with valuable cartouched stocks, most especially early ones.

The decision was made much easier when I found out commercials, especially heavies and especially .308's, tend to shoot MUCH more accurately and also last longer.

Whatever one does, it is best if condition and authenticity can be maintained in some way over a lifetime.

It's not our place to ridicule or condemn anything well thought-out someone does to or with his own property, unless it truly is criminal. And in the literal sense.

I was always especially fond of the Italian rebuild Tipo 2 (type two) configuration because there literally is no exact original configuration, and they are lots of fun and consume ammo that is easy to find and where some surplus will be around for a long time.

Everything else is gray areas.

Another note: yes, barrel LIFE is indeed greatly increased if one cleans regularly, properly, and avoids lots of rapid fire. Yes, it can double the old approximate G.I. standards. Commercial barrels tend to last considerably longer than G.I. Gentler leades, improved metallurgy, and especially the more appropriate 1 turn in 12" is some of that in objective terms.

Fact: no one is making original 1936-56 U.S.G.I. barrels. No one makes actual military Beretta or Breda barrels from 1952-84, either.

This is stuff worth some thinking.

Last edited by jimthompson502002; 10-05-2022 at 09:15 AM. Reason: detail
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  #43  
Old 10-07-2022, 01:02 PM
Red Devil Red Devil is offline
 
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GCA - did a field test for M1 rifle sustained fire barrel erosion.

They determined that TE occurs at a rate of ~ 0.001" (one gauge number) per every 2,000 rounds fired, and that ME is ~ 1/3 that (0.001"/6,000 rounds fired).

According to TM 9-1275: SERVICEABILITY CHART - Figure 23
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/tm-fig23.htm

U.S. Army M1 rifle Breech Bore Max. for Storage and Reissue - is 0.305".

So, given a SG M1 rifle w/ a TE=1.5/ME=0.5 Bbl....?

That's 0.3050" - 0.3015" = 0.0035" (3.5 gauge)... x ~ 2,000 rds./gauge... = ~ 7,000 rds.

If you take that to 0.306" (issued overseas)... ~ 9,000 rds.

To 0.308"? (Generally accepted accuracy threshold)... ~ 13,000 rds.




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