Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > M1A/M14
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-24-2014, 12:07 PM
Dollar Bill Dollar Bill is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 2,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M14 View Post
Want to bet on it ?
Here's the thing about weapon design, once a good design is created, it doesn't matter how old it is. Take the revolver for instance. I don't see anyone not making them and selling millions because it is an old design. Colt would roll over in his grave if he heard that we are not going back, looking for design inspiration for the present and future. It's all about research and finding what has worked in the past and what will work, what mistakes were made and learning from those.
A good point. The M14 is the most refined version of the Garand design. Design updates to lower the weight and use a cartridge in the 6 to 7mm range would be fine all-around infantry weapon.
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-24-2014, 12:25 PM
Rock Rock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M14
Here's the thing about weapon design, once a good design is created, it doesn't matter how old it is. Take the revolver for instance. I don't see anyone not making them and selling millions because it is an old design. Colt would roll over in his grave if he heard that we are not going back, looking for design inspiration for the present and future. It's all about research and finding what has worked in the past and what will work, what mistakes were made and learning from those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollar Bill View Post
A good point. The M14 is the most refined version of the Garand design. Design updates to lower the weight and use a cartridge in the 6 to 7mm range would be fine all-around infantry weapon.
The above says a lot. The new designs may have a more modern appearance but do they really increase effectiveness?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-24-2014, 05:27 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 8,617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock View Post
The above says a lot. The new designs may have a more modern appearance but do they really increase effectiveness?
There is also a lot to be said about those that would promote the antiquated M14 design in an attempt to profit from its "new" production.

Given the direction the Army is going in Afghanistan, and the troop level announcement by the Pentagon...the M4 replacement will be put off for the indefinite future.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-24-2014, 06:41 PM
Dollar Bill Dollar Bill is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 2,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
There is also a lot to be said about those that would promote the antiquated M14 design in an attempt to profit from its "new" production.

Given the direction the Army is going in Afghanistan, and the troop level announcement by the Pentagon...the M4 replacement will be put off for the indefinite future.
Ya, that just got reinforced by the news that Chuck Hagel wants to shrink the Army, limit pay increase to 1% AND make troops pay more for housing and medical.
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-24-2014, 07:38 PM
GGaskill GGaskill is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 2,665
Default

Yeah, gotta save all those freeloaders before we support the people who put their a$$es on the line for us.
__________________
Only hits count.

"The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or fears or wishes rather than with their minds."--Will Durant
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:22 AM
spoon spoon is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: W. Kentucky
Posts: 761
Default

I would like to add that if you think the caliber is ineffective then you havent been shot or shot at.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-25-2014, 07:39 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,305
Default

Ok:
I'll throw my 2$ in this mess:

-If you want to mount a light, scope, silencer, use Night Vision or laser (military or not)---Go with an AR. The other 2 can mount those things but either its hokey or by the time you have a proper mount (ie EBR) it is so heavy- you won't carry it.

-If you want ease of carry and compactness- AR or AK then M14.

-If you want absolute reliability- AK, AR and then M14.

-Accuracy out to 200yds: Average rifle/average ammo:
1. AR 2-3 MOA. 2. M14 3-4 MOA 3. AK 3-5 MOA.


All these rifles need maintenance, all can be tweeked to get better performance and all can shoot better with better ammo (the AK less so).

The M14 is dead and gone from the US military. The only reason it was revived for Iraq/Afghanistan is to fill in for the shortage of M110's etc. But now we have SCAR 17's, M110's etc etc

For me:
AR is it-- accurate, light, easily allows optics etc to get mounted and more accessories then ever.
AK- a good rugged rifle lacking good optics.
M14- A good target rifle that sits in my safe.

The military:
AR system for a long time still- it isn't going away.

Last edited by Gewehr43; 02-25-2014 at 07:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 PM
Kestrel4k Kestrel4k is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
[...] The M14 is dead and gone from the US military. The only reason it was revived for Iraq/Afghanistan is to fill in for the shortage of M110's etc. But now we have SCAR 17's, M110's etc etc
I'm not familiar with the M14 replacements, but this caught my attention regarding the M110:
Quote:
According to performance specification (MIL-PRF-32316 (AR) w/AMENDMENT 1, 5 October 2009):

3.4.1.1.1 Accuracy. The distance between the mean point of impact of each shot group, both unsuppressed and suppressed, shall be not greater than 1.1 inches at 300 feet.

3.4.1.1.2 Dispersion. The average mean radius (AMR) (see 6.11), of each shot group shall be not greater than to 0.68 inches at 300 feet. All targets shall be fired on using M118LR ammunition or equivalent, using five (5) round groups.
Those are some pretty impressive performance figures, I'm no expert on the M14's but they're not close to this consistent are they?

Last edited by Kestrel4k; 02-25-2014 at 08:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:30 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,305
Default

Kestrel:
Well that is what I'm pointing out. I don't feel as though the M14 is anywhere close to that but I'm sure there will be disagreement. That is for a standard issue M110, not a NM or whatever. Compare that to a standard M14- not close.

I should point out too that the scope is easily and properly mounted on the M110, it will easily take (or not) a suppressor etc etc....

Yes- I know you can mount a scope on an M14. But once you find the mount that will actually hold zero, your next adventure is figuring out how to get a good stock weld, since the scope is so high up.

The SCAR 17 is equally versatile and a better choice than the M14.

Last edited by Gewehr43; 02-25-2014 at 08:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:43 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,305
Default

PS- the reason I keep mentioning lights, lasers, optics and silencers is that if you are discussing what the US military might/will/should use, you should recognize that those items are part of a weapon system that the US has fully and totally embraced.

What I mean is when I left the Infantry 1 year ago, ALL our training/tactics revolved around the integrated use of those accessories with our small arms.

A light for ID in CQB, a laser for night fire, the CCO scopes for aimed fire, thermal sights for both and the silencer for masking fire.

The AR family (with the standard flat top, rail system) allows that integration and use.

The M14 doesn't. Oh wait use the EBR chassis........ And add how much weight and cost? Just get a SCAR or M110. Done and done.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 PM.