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Old 06-03-2018, 09:41 AM
3StrikesNC 3StrikesNC is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: in a house
Posts: 2,782

Thanks Marty for reading my post and not doing as some others that are blinded by juvenile feelings. Actually, my post had you in mind. I was there to see you earn one win, which was phenomenal. You are an extremely skilled marksman. IMO, you should have taken home more.

But, that said, when a professional team shows up to a “Civilian Marksmanship Program” competition and makes up 30% or so of the field, something’s amiss. Likewise, when some of their shooters, clearly Masters and HM take lower level awards (i.e. Sharpshooter) just because the new CMP classification system hasn’t caught up to them (they hadn’t shot enough CMP events), something’s amiss as well.

All of this is really no big deal to me, as I’m an average or slightly better (on good days) shooter. I don’t ever expect to win any of this stuff and rightly so. But there are those that put in the time, expense and effort, and for them, competing in a civilian event against a field stacked with 30% professional marksmen, well, it’s just not right. For all the mouse jockeys, I’m not even talking about retired professional shooters, cause with them it’s the same as other civilians, game on. They also have to buy their own equipment and their livelihood doesn’t depend on them shooting well, so let’s not go there.

Again, I’m not advocating not allowing professional team participation, but IMO something needs to give, or we’ll witness the dissolution of what was once a great event.

Last edited by 3StrikesNC; 06-03-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:50 AM
martydabney martydabney is offline
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 78

Thanks for the kind words. I was fortunate enough to win a little something. I didnt get more because I didnt perform lime i should have. A slam fire at 600 on the second day doesnt help either.

As far as the CMPs classification system, its young and it needs to catch up and it will. They caught up with me pretty quick but some still need to be reclassed.

You could in theory add a special class for Civilians. This would help seperate military teams from the rest of us. One caveat of this is grouping all mil shooters in the same class as the AMU/ Marine Corps.if you look at Army and Marine Reserves, Air force, Navy and National Guard teams, they arent funded like the 2 big teams but they wpuld in turn get thrown in there with them. So what do you do? I dont think you can have an AMU/Marine class. I guess you could but...

The other thing that you would have to deal with is the overall winner. Like the NTI, you have Civilian trophies but the overall is still open. Civilians rarely win that.

I guess with all of that, what do you do?

Last edited by martydabney; 06-03-2018 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:32 PM
milprileb milprileb is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Saigon, RVN
Posts: 3,284


If the USAMU won everything every year, your concerns would ring loud and true. They don't so its this Eastern Games they did well , the match season is still young, good luck with you guys at Camp Perry.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:35 PM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monroe, Michigan
Posts: 1,934

There are few civilians that can compete on the level of the AMU / Marine Corps. But I will never begrudge any of them for winning or earning awards. They EARN it. All of it. Most civilians would burn out and move on to something easier and less stressful or demanding in short time. Turning a hobby you love into a career and then being expected to compete at and maintain that level indefinitely would get old for most people. Most of the AMU / Marine Corps best and brightest are Olympic level competitors and aren’t even on the same plane of existence as us mere mortals.. I sure do aspire to be that good though. But I am just a part time amateur. Am I self funded? Yes. Do I have the “best” equipment? That is subjective, what I have works for me and I never feel I am losing points due to equipment. Do I believe I could be as good a competitor as anyone? Yes, I do.... IF I put in the time to train mentally, physically and emotionally. I know how to find the X ring. I don’t train nearly as much as I should or the best shooters (Civ or Mil) do. I don’t want to either!

High power first and foremost is an individual journey of personal growth and achievement. You need to set achievable goals and then achieve them and then set another goal. If you make the goal to put each round in the 10 or X ring and you achieve that goal for 50 / 80 / 100 shots then there are scant few competitors that could come close to challenging you. Chase your white whale but don’t make that whale so big he / she is unreachable. Make the reward personal achievement. If you are lucky you will make some very good friends along the way and they will give you a pat on the back when you achieve your goals.

I honestly can’t say I go to Camp Perry or any other match to win trophies and trinkets. I go to shoot amongst peers, make friends, and LEARN. There will always be someone better so if you want to be a threat you better train like it is life or death. If that isn’t your game then you need to find other suitable reasons to participate. This sport is HARD and no one gets anywhere for free. Jealousy surely doesn’t pad the score card either.
Michigan Rifle & Pistol Assoc - State High Power Director
Distinguished Rifleman #2297

Last edited by Rootsy; 06-04-2018 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:33 PM
rickgman rickgman is online now
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,246

Rootsy, thsoe are very thoughful comments.
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:53 AM
petera petera is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 185

When you shoot every day and every shot is analyzed, when a 9 is considered a failure, when you know you must not fail because if you do, you could be back at your old MOS, when you must memorize the rules, etc. the fun is gone. It was a great ride; but, it was not fun. It was an obsession. I am glad I had the experience and am not complaining; but, be aware that there was a price.---A former AMU member from the 60s and 70s
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:35 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,356

One of the good things about the matches is the ability to shoot and mix with the best. You can't do this in most sports. ...and Petera reminds us of of something I have known for years: get too serious about anything and you risk taking the fun out of it. Good Shooting. ...
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:58 AM
jimp223 jimp223 is offline
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 107

If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:37 PM
Wrecks Wrecks is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SE corner of Michigan
Posts: 68

Rootsy's thoughts hit the 10 ring. For me the fun is in the shooting and the people. We are fortunate in this country where huge groups of people can gather with loads of guns and fill a berm full of lead.
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