Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > M1 Garand
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:53 PM
M1Garandy M1Garandy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 1,111
Default Early 90's DCM paperwork and "NM" rifle question.

I've known about a "NM" Garand for sale with "DCM paperwork" for sale locally for some time. I finally saw it today.

The rifle is a high 2 million S/N SA receiver, NM marked barrel (196? hard to read) TE 4.5 MW 2, RA NM op-rod, SA Y01 bolt, NM 2A rear sight, NM front sight, SA 65 series trigger group.

The stock is bedded and has a S/N written the in the barrel channel that does NOT match the last four of the rifle.

The trigger housing also has a S/N written on the inside that does NOT match the last four of the rifle.

The "DCM paperwork" is really from the DCM and shows sale of the rifle (by S/N) and several others to a rifle club. On the paperwork, the rifle is only identified as an M1 rifle, nothing stating National Match.

In the early 90's, could clubs order NM rifles from the DCM?

If so, what would the DCM sales paperwork ID them as?

Does this sound like a mixed up Type 2 National Match or a standard service rifle someone kitted out as a "NM" rifle or something else entirely?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-10-2015, 09:44 PM
jerryjeff jerryjeff is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,874
Default

There were some NM rifles that went to clubs. Average case, they're all mixed up and shot out. Still, I saw a shot out NM club rifle go for two grand and the buyer flew his plane out to get it. Your example sounds mixed somewhat,but,what with the DCM paperwork evidence seems to establish it was a club NM rifle to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-10-2015, 10:53 PM
JoeW2111 JoeW2111 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: S.,W. Florida
Posts: 3,526
Default

I don't believe that any NM rifles were loaned to Clubs in the 1990's. It was explained to me that in the 1990's DCM shooting clubs that had rifles on loan were given the opportunity to either buy or return the rifles. Most clubs that had members that wanted a rifle would require the member to pay the club, up front, for the rifle. The club would then buy the rifles from DCM and then "sell" them to the members that paid for them.
In this case the DCM document would contain the serial numbers of ALL rifles purchased by the club and normally they would be identified as NM.
The DCM sales document should also show the cost of the rifle or rifles sold. I believe in 1994 the cost of a NM M1 rifle from the DCM was $ 148.00. If your document shows this price than it was a NM rifle.
Sounds like the rifle you are looking at is a 1963 version and if so the barrel drawing number should be 7791035 dated between 12 of 62 and 3 of 63.
If your DCM document shows only one (1) rifle then maybe only one member of the club wished to purchase a rifle. The stocks and trigger groups may have gotten switched around while the rifle was in the hands of the club, but not having the correct stock with the rifle it was bedded to will surely effect the value quite a bit.
There is an article in the Summer 2013 GCA Journal regarding club rifles sold by DCM in 1994. The article implies that the rifles were first requested and loaned to the club in 1994. I don't think that was the case and believe those rifles were sold as I stated above, but never the less, it is a good article and does show a photo of the DCM document along with the rifles.

I just reread your post and see that you say the DCM paperwork does list several rifles. In that case, does the last 4 digits written in the channel of your stock match the last 4 of any of the other rifles serial numbers. If so you will know that the stock was switched by the club. Same for the trigger group. Divide the total cost by the number of rifles listed and see if the cost of a single rifle would be $ 148.00.
I would guess that copies of the DCM document would be made and a copy given to each club member that purchased a rifle.

Last edited by JoeW2111; 01-10-2015 at 11:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-11-2015, 03:00 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,451
Default

OP:
If I'm reading your post correctly, the DCM paperwork would indicate the rifle as being an "NM" rifle. Since it does not, I would say it is a cobbled rifle.
As the other poster suggested- look to see if the other serials match the other rifles.......... if so mystery solved.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-11-2015, 09:44 AM
2761377 2761377 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: the V ring
Posts: 396
Default

the receipt sent with rifles from DCM in the early '90's had the NSN of the rifle on it.

which for standard service grade rifles is 1005-00-674-1425.
__________________
ID is not my rifle's s/n
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-11-2015, 02:56 PM
JoeW2111 JoeW2111 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: S.,W. Florida
Posts: 3,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
the receipt sent with rifles from DCM in the early '90's had the NSN of the rifle on it.

which for standard service grade rifles is 1005-00-674-1425.
Good point. The NM stock number is 1005-00-720-0476.
I would bet the rifle is what it is said to be. A NM rifle loaned to a club. Stock and trigger group switched at some point. Rifle subsequently purchased from DCM by club and transferred to a club member. One thing that makes me think that it is not a "cobbled" rifle is that, if someone was trying to sell a put together, they would be better off removing the last four of the serial numbers recorded on the trigger housing and stock. The seller could just claim that the numbers were "removed during cleaning", which does happen. Problem is that with the wrong stock and trigger group it will not bring the dollars it would otherwise.

Last edited by JoeW2111; 01-11-2015 at 03:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2015, 03:28 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,451
Default

OP:

Could you please clarify something before the guessing continues?

You say:

"The "DCM paperwork" is really from the DCM and shows sale of the rifle (by S/N) and several others to a rifle club. On the paperwork, the rifle is only identified as an M1 rifle, nothing stating National Match."
(The underlining was done by me).

So to answer your question of the documentation, yes it is my understanding that the DCM WOULD mark a NM rifle as such. So if the paperwork says just M1, it was released by the DCM as a standard M1.

Have I misunderstood your comment?

Looking at SRS logs of the M1 serials it is clear that NM rifles did go out to clubs. But if your documents indicate a standard M1, I think it has been cobbled together.

Joe: Trying to figure out some ones logic in selling something and how they present it is pointless. Further, their attempts at selling the rifle have nothing at all to do with the rifle itself.

"Buy the rifle, not the story."

In this case, the rifle is telling you it is mismatched. The stock and trigger group are not original. If I understood the OP correctly, the paperwork says it isn't an original NM. The 2 million receiver is odd for an original NM too.

Last edited by Gewehr43; 01-11-2015 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2015, 05:14 PM
M1Garandy M1Garandy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 1,111
Default

Thanks for all the help and opinions.

To answer several questions, I'll be near this rifle again next weekend and I'll check on A: the sale price, B: the NSN, C: the actual date on DCM paperwork, D: if the stock and TG could have come off of any of the other rifles listed on the sale paperwork.

If the DCM would list a NM rifle as a NM rifle by name and not just NSN on their sales paperwork, this one probably isn't.

Reading the information posted, I wonder if it is possible this reciept was issued when the club bought rifles they had been loaned years before rather than having placed a new order in the the early 90's?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-11-2015, 08:39 PM
JoeW2111 JoeW2111 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: S.,W. Florida
Posts: 3,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
OP:

Could you please clarify something before the guessing continues?

You say:

"The "DCM paperwork" is really from the DCM and shows sale of the rifle (by S/N) and several others to a rifle club. On the paperwork, the rifle is only identified as an M1 rifle, nothing stating National Match."
(The underlining was done by me).

So to answer your question of the documentation, yes it is my understanding that the DCM WOULD mark a NM rifle as such. So if the paperwork says just M1, it was released by the DCM as a standard M1.

Have I misunderstood your comment?

Looking at SRS logs of the M1 serials it is clear that NM rifles did go out to clubs. But if your documents indicate a standard M1, I think it has been cobbled together.

Joe: Trying to figure out some ones logic in selling something and how they present it is pointless. Further, their attempts at selling the rifle have nothing at all to do with the rifle itself.

"Buy the rifle, not the story."

In this case, the rifle is telling you it is mismatched. The stock and trigger group are not original. If I understood the OP correctly, the paperwork says it isn't an original NM. The 2 million receiver is odd for an original NM too.
The 2 mil receiver is not at all "odd".
By 1958 new receivers on hand at SA were largely used up and during 1959 SA began to draw from its stock of used receivers. Type 2 NM rifles can include the entire SA serial range. See "The Type 2 NM, Part 1" by Bob Seijas, found in he Fall 2003 GCA Journal.
You state "looking at SRS logs of the M1 serials it is clear that NM rifles did go out to clubs". You should also notice in the SRS logs that a large number of M1 NM rifles are listed with serial numbers ranging from 26934 through 3837874.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-11-2015, 08:52 PM
JoeW2111 JoeW2111 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: S.,W. Florida
Posts: 3,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1Garandy View Post
Thanks for all the help and opinions.

Reading the information posted, I wonder if it is possible this reciept was issued when the club bought rifles they had been loaned years before rather than having placed a new order in the the early 90's?
That is what I feel is the case.
As I stated "I don't believe that any NM rifles were loaned to Clubs in the 1990's. It was explained to me that in the 1990's DCM shooting clubs that had rifles on loan were given the opportunity to either buy or return the rifles."

The rifles were originally loaned to Gun Clubs and there would be no DCM sales documents from that time. The sales documents are from the time in the 1990's that the club bought the rifles from DCM. The club may have had the rifles 10 or more years before the purchase.

Last edited by JoeW2111; 01-11-2015 at 09:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 AM.