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  #21  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:21 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
 
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AR rifles in either piston and/or .308 means you are buying a parts "Orphan in Waiting" regarding down the road support. Because, unlike the 5.56MM ARs, there is no "milspec" standard for any of the piston and/or .308 parts, each so maker's parts are different - and NOT INTERCHANGABLE. With an M1A/M14 Semi, there is a standard, agreed to parts commonality the .308 AR seriously lacks.

So, in the field, with 400,000 -500,000 M1A/M14 clones already in public hands, with an increasing supply of STANDARD parts and magazines are not really a problem. Your piston/.308 AR? A few thousand from each maker - and NONE of the parts interchange except maybe trigger group stuff.

I'll stick with something proven that I can get parts for - ten years from now..... CC
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:33 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Col Colt makes a great point.
I own an M1A (as designed, I paid for all of the barrel, not one of those short ones!), and it shoots as designed, and reliably. But that is just my opinion, as my sample is one! But as Aloreman states, they have made plenty of them, and I do not expect 0 defects, but I do expect them to manage warranty issues quickly and professionally, and from what I have seen they do so quite well.
SAI could not offer a lifetime warranty if they had to use it all the time, so that is something to consider (many new companies offer lifetime warranties, then go out of business......).

I also own some 5.56 ARs, and they are milspec lego guns. Col Colt hits it on the head regarding the .308 ARS, there are a few variations among manufacturers (even mags are not 100% compatible) and many parts are simply not interchangeable.
I believe the .308 AR platform is "better" potentially in both accuracy as well as longevity (it is the future; I do not mean it is more, or less, "durable"), but my .308 match $$ remains in the M1A/M14 area until there is a universal standard among the ARs.

My personal opinion is that the CQB function is well served in 5.56, so get a lego AR setup for that, and for 308 use, get a full size rifle (M1A, or AR if you so desire). Lightweight and short for CQB and full size for 308. While I am sure it is possible to build a rifle pretty good at CQB and longer ranges, I don't seem to have a need for one!

I enjoy watching people brag about the "match" barrel on their shorty CQB rifles, like they have ever even seen a range >75 yards. But I digress.....
JH
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  #23  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:10 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Parts? You are going to argue part interchangeability?

Please.....................

So as far as M14's go........ they haven't made parts since the 60's? A trigger group that used to cost what 50.00 is now 225.00?

How about a bolt, which if it isn't a reclaimed drill bolt, is how much?
A magazine, if it isn't a fake copy, is how much?
An op rod, if it isn't a reweld, is how much?
There is such a great supply of parts and all but people are forced to upgrading the Chinese made ones to acceptable standards?

There is a dwindling supply of M14 parts not a increasing supply.

I would disagree with your statement over AR 308 parts. The entire lower is interchangeable. So the Stock, receiver and all parts switch out.

That is the whole point to being able to separate the upper and lower. Take a Colt 901-- I can even switch out -very easily- the caliber.
The M14 can't do that.

The upper sight, receiver, forends all switch out, freely and easily.

Magazines: So Right now I'll pay 50.00 (atleast) for a hopefully not reproduction M14 mag. A Magpul 308 magazine is 20.00 brand new in the wrap with a guarantee.

If you really think there are 400-500,000 M14's out there then there are atleast a 1,000,000 AR's out there. It is the number one type of MSR being sold today and not ending anytime soon.

So in 10yrs from now, you will be cannibalizing other M14's for parts or paying what 500.00? for a bolt. I'll still have a multitude of uppers to play with fresh cheap parts to order. I'll still be able to pick my caliber and whatever I want on the rifle.

Last edited by Gewehr43; 04-23-2015 at 02:32 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:25 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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PS:

Look at the Brownells catalog....................

How many thousands (?) of AR parts are there?
There are 94 pages of parts and accessories.

M14: There are what maybe 10 items? Total?

Their Fulton Armory M14 (stripped) bolt is 229.00 and a DPMS 308 (complete) bolt is 99.00.

The James River M14F msrp is 2195. The Colt AR601-16S msrp is 1623.

I'll take the savings and get a better more versatile rifle and parts.

Last edited by Gewehr43; 04-23-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:31 PM
H2O MAN H2O MAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
I own an M1A (as designed, I paid for all of the barrel, not one of those short ones!), and it shoots as designed, and reliably.
I like the 22" barrel, especially for shooting with iron sights, and when I might need the extra muzzle velocity for reaching out. I also like the 18" length used by our military, the reduced length is more manageable, and the slight reduction in muzzle velocity isn't an issue until you reach past 700 yards or so.


Also, don't "pay 50.00 for (atleast) for a hopefully not reproduction M14 mag."

CMI is the current USGI M14 mag. 44 Mag has them for $25 each - free shipping.
If you wait for a real sale, you can get these brand new USGI M14 mags for closer to $20 each.
http://www.44mag.com/category/m1a_m14_magazines_usgi

The M14 is a robust mechanical device, parts failure rates are low.
It's not a bad idea to have a spare extractor available though.

Last edited by H2O MAN; 04-23-2015 at 02:41 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:46 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Then what are these:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/magazin...newinwrap.aspx


And why does he want 99.95 for them?
And why is there any demand for the original magazines if the CMI are as good or better?

But fair enough, the CMI magazines can match the price of the Magpuls.

The M14 is a good rifle and the nostalgia is one-of-a-kind. But it doesn't compare to the versatility of the AR's.

Last edited by Gewehr43; 04-23-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-23-2015, 03:35 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Then what are these:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/magazin...newinwrap.aspx


And why does he want 99.95 for them?
And why is there any demand for the original magazines if the CMI are as good or better?

But fair enough, the CMI magazines can match the price of the Magpuls.

The M14 is a good rifle and the nostalgia is one-of-a-kind. But it doesn't compare to the versatility of the AR's.
No one on this thread can comment on why someone charges what they do. And it is not relevant to anything.
People collect USGI magazines, hence the price.
CMI are milspec, and most popular for shooters. So M14 mags are available for $25. That is where I by tem, and apparently everyone else, but one?

Of course M14 parts are scarce, for obvious reasons.
But, with the future allegedly in the AR platform it will be a good thing WHEN the designs are standardised, they are not currently (sure, the brand one agency buys will be....).

Of course many parts interchange, but it is far from "standard: like the M16 base. Lower parts will not interchange among all manufacturers, mags will not, etc. So currently is it not much better than the M14 simply because the base of parts and manufacturers is not spread around like the 5.56 ARs.

I am unaware of a rush to get Chinese parts for M14s; the receivers and barrels have a good reputation (just like any copy, a few brands always stand out), but all other parts are available, USGI or simply new made by SAI. Not cheap, but available.
I enjoy my M14 for what it is, but I believe the future of the long range 308 platform will be with the AR design; until there is a standard, I'll keep on the sidelines.
JH
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  #28  
Old 04-23-2015, 03:50 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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H2O man; I'm just trying to push some buttons!
I like the short M14s but they are not for me. I have handled my share; they are clearly a step above in quality to most else on the market......

But I'll stay firm on my conclusion:
1. Pistol is to fight your way to your rifle. o need for 37 different types like most magazines suggest. So, other than collector pistols, I own 1-2 "useful" ones.
2. Rifle, to me, is simply a quality battle rifle (5.56/7.62). Up to 300-400 yards is fine, so there are plenty in this category (I own a plenty, as a collector and not a doublewide defender
3. Long range rifle: For >300-400 yards. Not necessarily a "sniper", more of a designated marksman. My M14, or 91/30 PU cover this.
4. Sniper. Don't have one (not a current one at least; 91/30 PU is a bit past it's prime for this function!), not in my TO&E....... But obvious what goes here.
5. .22s. For plenty of other uses, pistol and rifle.

Being just a collector and recreational shooter, my zombie bug out plans will consist mostly of selecting which battle rifle to use from my "collection"!

My SVT40 is a fine battle rifle, and I shoot it in more competitions (CQB especially) than most expect, but it is not the most "practical", at least of the more modern rifles in my collection. A few feet to long (you really notice this in a CQB match!), needs USGI sights, exceeds noise ordinances on most ranges, and the trigger is waaaay to slow for any timed match..... But since I pay to compete.......

Now when we leave the "practical" (cause zombie apocalypse is practical!), and go to "fun factor/practical", my list would include a few non-original M14s, as a beginning! Repro BAR, Soviet DP, those would also appear!

After reading Bostons Gun Bible (at least the first half) I really look at the practicality of firearms. Some get good value finding a more versatile rifle (a CQB in 7.62 with maybe some optics to reach out >300 yards), but me; that's just an excuse for another rifle!

JH
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  #29  
Old 04-23-2015, 03:55 PM
nf1e nf1e is offline
 
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M14s are my personal choice. They do have soul.






Semper Fi
Art

Last edited by nf1e; 04-23-2015 at 03:58 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-23-2015, 05:03 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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I do agree that the M14 has a soul which the AR's don't, but any of these arguments of how or why the M14 might be better than the AR don't hold up.

So OP: You wanted some reasons why an AR in 308 would be better- there you go. If you go with an M14- no one will fault you though..........
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