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  #51  
Old 07-10-2012, 12:40 PM
Tired Retired Tired Retired is offline
 
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Hugh,

You may want to factor in the following additional information into your calculations.

1) For the plain-language folks like me, the amount of kinetic energy is a function of the inertia of the bolt (weight, speed, spring tension) and the force applied. That force is concentrated only across the surface area of the primer (which is in contact with the bolt) NOT the entire surface area of the bolt face. Remember, in my scenario the primer is protruding higher that the base of the case. If this concentrated force on the rear of the primer does not move to seat the primer in this out-of-spec casing, the primer will be crushed. If the primer was sticking out in the first place, you have to assume that it did not seat properly when it was installed. Therefore, why would it seat when the bolt was pushing on it?

2) I understand how you are making the comparison to the Lee Auto-primer as far as seating the primer. I am a bit familiar with that since I have now broken my second lever off of one deep-seating primers into .30-06 cases last month. (Surplus cases, strong hands, stubborn determination to th epoint of stupidity???) However, that tool (as well as every primer seating tool I have used) is designed to apply a steady, consistent force over the primer as it seats it. Oh, and I reviewed the Lee Auto-Primer instructions and found the following at the top of the first page:

"Primers will explode if shocked or crushed. Wear safety glasses at all times when priming or handling primers.
Warning If you feel an increase in pressure on the lever earlier than normal, you have a problem and continued pressure may result in a primer detonation."

Also, please remember that CCI, Winchester, Federal, etc all sell their primers in self-contained packaging designed to prevent shock and sympathetic detonations.

3) Hugh, you are correct that there are people who fall into the class of a "profoundly mentally challenged reloader". However, this scenario of an out of spec case is possible with both reloaded ammo and poor quality/damaged commercial/surplus ammo.


My points here are not to continue an argument or to prove anyone wrong. It is help others understand what is unsafe and dangerous. People relate that they find commercial ammo with primers backwards, necks that were crushed and bullets poorly seated. I personally have found those type of issues twice in commercial ammo. I have also found it COUNTLESS times in military ammo across a career.

Using unsafe ammo (either reloads or commercially produced) is dangerous, even in a weapon which is in good working order. It is the gun owner's responsibility to inspect the ammuntion prior to use.

That is the real lesson out the original post of this "M14 blow-up"

Last edited by Tired Retired; 07-10-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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  #52  
Old 07-10-2012, 03:34 PM
moose moose is offline
 
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I have said it once, and I will say it again. Don't feed crap ammo to good guns.

Look I know that 308 is running from 50cents to a buck a shot. But is it worth your gun or fingers?

Stick to Commerical, Nato, or Aussie.

I won't comment on the reloading, as I don't do it.
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  #53  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:54 AM
M14 M14 is offline
 
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In the scenario listed, it will still not cause it to ignite. The energy is used up from the base of the cartridge coming into contact with the ejector and spring first. It will slow down very rapidily and not have enough energy to set it off. After that has happened, the extractor will attempt to ride up and over the cartridge base and lock into the cannelure, it will not have enough energy left to do so, or the primer will stop it altogether, no explosion will ensue. The high primer will get nowhere near the firing pin, the bolt will not go to battery without the extractor positioned properly on the cartridge.
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  #54  
Old 07-11-2012, 10:24 AM
HughUno HughUno is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M14 View Post
In the scenario listed, it will still not cause it to ignite. The energy is used up from the base of the cartridge coming into contact with the ejector and spring first. It will slow down very rapidily and not have enough energy to set it off. After that has happened, the extractor will attempt to ride up and over the cartridge base and lock into the cannelure, it will not have enough energy left to do so, or the primer will stop it altogether, no explosion will ensue. The high primer will get nowhere near the firing pin, the bolt will not go to battery without the extractor positioned properly on the cartridge.
yep, I agree, but had given up on this debate as being 'too many angels occupying the same pin-head.'

likewise, and frankly, having spent a good bit of my life shooting "free ammo" myself, I maybe recall a couple of misfire/duds from any actual GI-Issue ammo. Other than that, everything was pretty much trouble free. I think I might have seen ONE reversed primer on some commercial handgun ammo once, but wouldn't swear to that at all. "Careful inspection" of "all" ammo can be a luxury at night, in the rain, mud, sandstorms, etc. especially when it's coming off 10 round stripper clips.

Worrying about an OOB in an M1/M14 (or almost ANY modern weapon) is a fairly complete waste of life-energy. I suspect the actual risk of an OOB in an M1/M14 is statistically LESS than the risk of the Earth being whacked by a giant asteroid. At least the giant asteroid thing has in fact TAKEN PLACE a few times (lol).

Last edited by HughUno; 07-11-2012 at 10:27 AM.
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  #55  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:12 PM
TFLeader TFLeader is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MA
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Default So why blow out the bottom?

I took my M1A down and examined it. From my little knowledge of this type of event shouldn't at least half the energy escape out the top of the receiver?
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  #56  
Old 07-12-2012, 07:19 AM
TokiWartooth TokiWartooth is offline
 
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Location: New York
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With regards to reloading, of you stick only to recommended rifle powders, overcharging a viable 308 case to kaboom pressure is next to impossible as the case is nearly full with recommended loads. Confusing pistol powders with the above? Well, that's a whole new ball game. 44 grains of Bullseye in a 308 case will have you greeting St. Peter prematurely.
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  #57  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:51 PM
Deuceguy Deuceguy is offline
 
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Interesting thread. From the first post, the guy calmed down, packed up and left. The pics were taken while he was calming down?
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  #58  
Old 08-22-2012, 05:56 AM
glocke12 glocke12 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moose View Post
I have said it once, and I will say it again. Don't feed crap ammo to good guns.

Look I know that 308 is running from 50cents to a buck a shot. But is it worth your gun or fingers?

Stick to Commerical, Nato, or Aussie.

I won't comment on the reloading, as I don't do it.
What he said..I don't know why people go out and buy $1000-$3000 dollar guns and than shoot the cheapest ammo they can find..

As for reloads, as long as your careful and pay attention they are fine..Just dont shoot reloads made by someone else.
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  #59  
Old 08-22-2012, 09:22 AM
MXLMAX MXLMAX is offline
 
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Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
What he said..I don't know why people go out and buy $1000-$3000 dollar guns and than shoot the cheapest ammo they can find..

As for reloads, as long as your careful and pay attention they are fine..Just dont shoot reloads made by someone else.
Think about the guy with the $80,000 dollar Mercedes at the cut rate gas station.......
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