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Old 07-12-2011, 09:27 PM
surplusshooter surplusshooter is offline
 
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Default 52D stock finish

I wonder why there are so many different stock variations for the CMP Winchester 52D rifles ? I have seen them with a dull military oil type finish. I have also seen them with the shiny commercial type finish. Some have a two screw rear sling mount and still others have the single stud type and some with no rear sling swivel at all. And not to mention that some of the receivers are marked U.S. or U.S. PROPERTY and some with no marks. Unlike the Winchesters, all the Remingtons seem to be very consistent in their appearance. Any opinions on this ?
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2011, 09:43 PM
Mwieczorek Mwieczorek is offline
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Lots of these rifles were held by ROTC competition teams. The various teams were in charge of maintenance for their rifles, and if one school used oil finish and another sprayed their rifles with urethane, you would have your difference. Lots of the schools added adjustable butt plates and milled out their 52C forends to accomodate rail accessories, too.

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  #3  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:54 PM
7.62 Nitro Express 7.62 Nitro Express is offline
 
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The military contract rifles were spec'd to have a rear swivel for a carry sling and an oil finish.

The standard commercial rifles had a high gloss finish and no rear swivel because it is not used for smallbore competition.

Winchester obviously used standard commercial rifles to fill the military contract.

Add in 40+ years of mixing and matching parts which continued up to the week before it was sent to you and you have your answer.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:38 AM
surplusshooter surplusshooter is offline
 
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Thanks for the replies. What you guys stated makes perfect sense. So, would it be correct to assume that an "original" 52D as received new from Winchester had an oil finished stock with no rear sling swivel ? The 52D's that have rear sling swivels and or a shiny commercial type finish was done later by the different teams to their discretion. Would this be a fair assumption ??? The reason I ask these questions is because I think it would be nice to know what an original, new, as delivered from Winchester 52D stock looked like. The 52D that I received from the CMP has a dull oil type finish and has a two screw rear sling swivel mount that looks just like the rear sling swivel mount on my old 1903 Springfield. Even though the rear sling swivel mount on my 52D looks very professionally done, I don't think it was factory installed by Winchester, I think it was installed later. Comments ?
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:51 AM
7.62 Nitro Express 7.62 Nitro Express is offline
 
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So, would it be correct to assume that an "original" 52D as received new from Winchester had an oil finished stock with no rear sling swivel ?

No.

The 52D's that have rear sling swivels and or a shiny commercial type finish was done later by the different teams to their discretion. Would this be a fair assumption ???

No.

The reason I ask these questions is because I think it would be nice to know what an original, new, as delivered from Winchester 52D stock looked like.

Rifle made for commercial sales - glossy stock, no rear swivel
Rifle made for military contract - oil finish with rear swivel OR glossy finish with no swivel.


The 52D that I received from the CMP has a dull oil type finish and has a two screw rear sling swivel mount that looks just like the rear sling swivel mount on my old 1903 Springfield. Even though the rear sling swivel mount on my 52D looks very professionally done, I don't think it was factory installed by Winchester, I think it was installed later. Comments ?

It was done by Winchester at the factory.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:51 AM
five 0 five 0 is offline
 
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The military 52D would have had a rear swivel and oil finish as 7.62 nitro express posted. Now if your receiver is electro penciled with US then you have a military 52D.
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  #7  
Old 07-13-2011, 01:02 PM
surplusshooter surplusshooter is offline
 
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Very informative information. Thank you. Judging from the information above, MY CMP 52D is a half military contract, half commercial "mixmaster". My 52D has the military contract oil finished stock with a two screw rear sling swivel. However, my receiver is not "U.S." marked. Would it be correct to say that the only real true military contract 52D's must have the electro-pencil marked receivers with "U.S." or "U.S. PROPERTY" on them ? In other words, if the 52D that you received from the CMP has an unmarked receiver, it is a commercial replacement and was never a part of the original US Government contract ?
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:29 PM
MP10-32 MP10-32 is offline
 
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I'm guessing from the rifles that have been coming through the CMP that some were not US Property marked.

I believe it was thought that all govt. contract Win. RF rifles were marked. I think we need to look at the facts of what is being returned.

Usually when the DoD or DCM/CMP asks for rifles back, they are going off of a list of serial numbers that were on loan to an organization. That organization returns the listed rifles or tries to explain that they don't have that rifle anymore

If the organization kept the rifles all this time, would they send back rifles that were not requested back? Would they send in rifles that they may have purchased???

With the Win. 52's we're seeing that some are not US marked. We know that this marking process was after bluing, and a last step probably just before shipping. Win. seems to have been noted for saving steps/time/money in any of the govt. contract work.

Looking at this new info. on these rifles, I would believe that some contract rifles were not marked. I would also believe that some commercial stocks went out on these contract rifles. If Win. was directed to drop ship the rifles directly to an organization and not a military/govt. facility--then could they have shipped rifles that lacked a few requirements per the contract??? I would think so. This would be especially true if 52 commercial sales were lagging and they had inventory sitting. Also remember that Anschutz was in the field now.

Just my thoughts in watching what has been coming out of all the RF sales through CMP, past and present. I could be all wet on this, but you need to look at what is coming out.
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  #9  
Old 07-13-2011, 01:32 PM
five 0 five 0 is offline
 
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Your missing the point. Winchester probably sent commercial 52's and also Military 52's during the contracts with the Military. Before being sent to CMP they could have switched stocks, refinished stocks rebarreled guns mixed bolts etc. so who knows. For example the 52C I received has a 55 receiver and a 53 barrel. So it was rebarreled at one point and reblued before it reached CMP. The bedded action rocks in the stock. So the stock was not original to the barreled action. The trigger guard does not fit the inletting on the stocks trigger guard area. The trigger guard has a hole in the bottom so too make trigger adjustment for a Kenyon or some other trigger. The barreled action had D trigger instead of a C. The bolt was not etched with a serial number. So CMP probably rebuilt the gun by taking a barreled action and finding a stock and a trigger guard, bolt, trigger assembly and assembling everything. It still came from CMP so it is a US Military gun. Now if you were a US Martial arms collector you would want a oil stock with a rear swivel and the receiver electro penciled US and a matching bolt. That would probably mean it was a gun from the Military contract.

Last edited by five 0; 07-13-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-13-2011, 02:10 PM
surplusshooter surplusshooter is offline
 
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"MP10-32", has a very logical and reasonable explanation as to why: NOT ALL Winchester 52's were marked. The DOD has listings of all the serial numbers of the original government contract 52's. What he says makes perfect common sense. "Why would the military or ROTC organizations return rifles to the CMP that were not requested or listed on the DOD's serial number list ?" I also agree with his statement as to the reason why some US Government rifles were not marked.
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