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  #1  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:56 PM
SUPERX-M1 SUPERX-M1 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ohio
Posts: 113
Default Rimfire barrel life is now short due to primer composition

The primer has glass or silicate or silica as an integral part of ignition. The glass causes internal friction which ignites the primer compound. All companies now use glass. Federal did much research in an attempt to catch up with Russian accuracy.As did Eley. Eley had a fire due to the priming compound.The fire was (15 years ago?) They wanted something safer than wet primer mix spun into the rim. Did this old wet mix contain glass? If not, What?) They developed a dry mix, dropped into case, drop of water added, and they had silicate when mix dried. Mix is also acidic when it burns and is deposited in the bore and water condensate forms in the bore.



Half of the powder in the case does not burn up. It sits in the bore or is blown out of the bore. The primer residue does the same. Heavy large pieces sit on the bottom of bore- at 6:00. The next bullet fired picks up this hard, gritty trash and pushes it out the bore, grinding and wearing the bore as it goes..Also the debris is acidic.


The consequence is that target quality barrels deteriorate quickly. Damage is seen within 500 rounds. Accuracy life varies. Some as low as 5000 rnds, most by 10000 rnds a few last longer , 20000 or even more. Most sporter, plinker barrels are not accurate , but they are damaged as well. Some competion shooters shoot a lot of very expensive ammo.Some do not. Competition is expensive, so for some a barrel and fitting does not matter. If you shoot out a m52 barrel you might not be happy. A liner could be put in, but then not original. Well, you probably will not be shooting that much.


Eley claims that they have not changed their mfg in 20 years. When was the fire, and when did they announce their new priming method? They state there is glass in mix. What was in the old mix when barrels were reputed to last for 100000 or even 200000 rounds. What was the friction material then? And now and perhaps in the past , glass is used. If so, why did the glass not cause problems back in the day?


Supposedly, Eley has switched to a softer or less abrasive glass and there is less bore abrasion and barrels last longer. How much longer and how much damage and is the debris still acidic?


I consider this situation"aggravating". And, all companies are manufacturing the same way, so there is no escaping this problem.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2020, 10:49 AM
jmm jmm is offline
 
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Location: G'Boro, NC
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All my time shooting .22 Rimfire I have known there was glass in the priming compound, from all manufacturers.
More than 40 years.
This is not new technology.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2020, 11:10 AM
MyTurn MyTurn is offline
 
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Location: Northern Detroit, Michigan, Suburbs
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Would very much like to know the source of the 'information' first posted.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2020, 11:20 AM
JimF JimF is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmm View Post
All my time shooting .22 Rimfire I have known there was glass in the priming compound, from all manufacturers.
More than 40 years.
This is not new technology.
Yup . . . .This^^^^^^^

Known this for eons!
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2020, 12:21 PM
MajorD MajorD is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Arizona
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Would definitely need some supporting documents or data!
With modern priming 22 barrels have an almost infinite life. I know of no precision 22 shooters changing barrels due to wear at all, even In heavily used rifles 50 or more years old
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2020, 10:44 AM
SUPERX-M1 SUPERX-M1 is offline
 
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Location: ohio
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Default Barrel maker Lilja

at the website FAQ 8-20 , states that rimfire barrels have life of 5000 to 10000 ACCURATE shots. Accurate as defined by rimfire bench rest and prone/poition shooters.


One shooter rotates his Anschutz barrel every 1000 rounds to reposition the 6:00 ditched out and gravel road area.


Another shooter states that if the bore is lapped to smooth the surface of the gravel road bore, that accuracy improves.


Still another states that Eley changed their primer system about 2005. Eley has stated, in an interview, I believe, that they have not changed their priming system in 20 years.



It might be possible ,or not, to use alumina ie aluminum hydroxide , which is softer at MOH 2.5 , than silicate i.e glass at MOH 5.5.


Calfee in 2010 , thought it might not be the glass, but acid which caused pitting.


At this point, I think that Eley and others, know what the problem is.


Barrel life is not a problem for most, our rifles are not bench rest quality, and we do not shoot that much. If you shoot bench rest , then change your barrel. A lilja barrel is about $450 + fitting. One bench rester said that he felt that many had 5 figure incomes, so costly ammo and barrels are not a problem. For the rest of us, if we actually do shoot out a barrel ,and it becomes an eroded, pitted pipe, we can buy a new rifle or barrel.


I bought a new Marlin 322 in 222 rem w microgroove rifling. The barrel bore is a sewer pipe after 400 rounds. Now, that is barrel wear. This model is infamous for this wear.


Recently seen on the internet: Man took a chunk of rebar, bored it and installed a 22 liner. Then mounted it on a single shot break action. Perhaps , he posted his groups.
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2020, 11:02 AM
Johnho Johnho is offline
 
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Location: Brunswick County, NC
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Tell that to Joe Friedrich who set a record score in ARA in 2015 with a Benchmark barrel with over 100,000 rounds through it. He admits it was worn but I guess it still shot lights out.
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2020, 01:32 PM
MyTurn MyTurn is offline
 
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Superx-m1:
Please provide a link to that site.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2020, 06:46 PM
SUPERX-M1 SUPERX-M1 is offline
 
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Location: ohio
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Default Lilja faq

https://riflebarrels.com/support/faq/#life


If you want to know more, then interview rimfire bench resters and small bore prone, and 3position shooters. Kindly report back to us, with their statements, and if possible, their qualifications to make meaningful statements.


Competition oriented forums might delve into this subject. Specific questions may yield information.



Some report longer life, even much longer life of their barrels but the barrel history, other than estimated round count, is not given. Also, when the rounds were fired and with what ammo , and when the ammo was manufactured is an important element. The specific accuracy is important, during the life of the barrel.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2020, 06:21 AM
jmm jmm is offline
 
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Location: G'Boro, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERX-M1 View Post
I bought a new Marlin 322 in 222 rem w microgroove rifling. The barrel bore is a sewer pipe after 400 rounds. Now, that is barrel wear. This model is infamous for this wear.
uhhh, .222 Rem is not rimfire.
maybe you need to load the proper ammo into your rifle next time?
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